Conversion Therapy in the UK

[Mock Turtle]

Sexuality in humans is part social stratification and part impulse... Who you have the opportunity to mate with isn't up to you. That's why I don't believe in identity politics. Most of us will learn who is a mating option and favor that over others because we have learned how to woo that particular sex. There is no such thing as biologically gay, it's just nonsense. Most gay people don't pick to be as such they are rejected by women and learn to succeed with men. Once you receive progress along one path of sexuality you will continue along but it doesn't mean it's fixed. I've got "gay" (self-identified) friends who dated women and men, but were wanting the lifestyle of being gay over being straight.

We are humans and need love, sexual stimulation, and communication and we will seek that via whatever avenues we are successful at. If our only option for this positive feedback is the same sex we will seek it, if we can seek it with both we will, and if we are more successful with the opposite sex we'll go there too. This is largely why I think discriminating on sexual orientation is garbage, because our apparent orientation can change at will if we ignore the social ramifications of our peers and their expectations. The rules and the strata are basically worthless garbage for people to self-identify and discriminate between each other with. We will seek our love with whomever we resonate with regardless of these particulars.

Perhaps, but if they do eventually find some genes involved to definitively say some are just born that way - a possibility at least - then the question will surely be answered (for them, not discounting the other options though).

 

[SomeRandom]

I do not know the percentage. Many/some parents are not allowing the Doctor to make a gender determination at birth XXY folk could easily be left alone for a while. When I was born, the Doctor just took the infant in another room and did the surgery, and usually made a boy, right or wrong.

Whilst a doctor often has to make a snap decision with life long consequences, I think it best to "wait and see" in such a scenario.

 

[Dissily Mordentroge]

But, why is it a problem at all... If "God" made you gay, it's his fault.

Fault? I want to ask a question here that some may find offensive but for me it’s one of many serious questions that should be asked concerning biblical injunctions. If we accept Genesis 1:26 as literal why did the creator place a very sensitive erogenous zone (‘G-spot’) the male prostate gland, just inside the male anus.? A design fault by a perfect being or something else? This leads to another question probably not too relevant to this thread and maybe not worth starting another. The bible appears to suggest anal intercourse ( not practiced by over 30% of male homosexuals according to recent surveys in the West) an abomination for both male and female. Given the females of our species have no prostate gland therefore ‘miss out on’ the full pleasure of anal sex surely such practices are more to be condemned in heterosexual couples ( extremely popular today if you can judge by the content of web pornography) than gay.
I want to stress again I’m not trying to introduce a lascivious tone into this discussion but am simply putting forward questions I suggest are not in any way approached by scripture as we have it yet should be considered carefully if we’re going to label certain behaviours sinful or evidence of satanic influence.
There’s a deeper discussion to be had too about some specific passages in the Gospels and Old Testament, often used as evidence God disapproves of same sex love.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Sexuality is complex if nothing else, and even to say it exists on a spectrum is to oversimplify things quite a bit. For example, one of the complicating factors is how sexually amorphous a person is (and women in general tend to be more sexually amorphous than men).

There are many, many people that are just not amorphous at all. You can't just "pray the gay away" in them any more than you can pray the straight away--they are just hardwired. Conversion therapy, which is now outlawed in California, is by and large not only unsuccessful, but is very damaging for many of those who enter into it.

But that is simply not true for everyone. And I'm not just talking about bisexuals. I'm talking about people who flip from completely one direction to completely the other direction. I heard a young lady interviewed on Dennis Prager who openly admitted that when she was younger she was openly and completely straight, but in college she had chosen to become completely lesbian. Each of her lifestyles were authentic, and no she said she's not bi. They may not be the majority, but there are some amorphous people who, if society is open to it, will become gay when in a more traditional society they would have nurtured a straight sexuality.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Sexuality is complex if nothing else, and even to say it exists on a spectrum is to oversimplify things quite a bit. For example, one of the complicating factors is how sexually amorphous a person is (and women in general tend to be more sexually amorphous than men).

There are many, many people that are just not amorphous at all. You can't just "pray the gay away" in them any more than you can pray the straight away--they are just hardwired. Conversion therapy, which is now outlawed in California, is by and large not only unsuccessful, but is very damaging for many of those who enter into it.

But that is simply not true for everyone. And I'm not just talking about bisexuals. I'm talking about people who flip from completely one direction to completely the other direction. I heard a young lady interviewed on Dennis Prager who openly admitted that when she was younger she was openly and completely straight, but in college she had chosen to become completely lesbian. Each of her lifestyles were authentic, and no she said she's not bi. They may not be the majority, but there are some amorphous people who, if society is open to it, will become gay when in a more traditional society they would have nurtured a straight sexuality.

Yes, AND I met a woman who did the same thing, and when she graduated and got married. I assumed they had a monogamous relationship. She is young enough that her children are likely still home, though I have not talked to her in yonks. I wonder if she will swing when the Children are grown and gone?

At a Muslim women's "halaque", a woman sat down beside me and said, "We can not have Boyfriends, but we can have all the Girlfriends we wish to". Hmmm

 

[oldbadger]

Not being Lesbian myself, I see no reason to further torment someone who is struggling with it.......

Where did you get the idea that Lesbians are struggling with it?

Most are quite content with their sexuality.

The folks who struggling with LGBT sexualities are mostly Christians and other Theists, poor souls.

 

[Deeje]

My take on homosexuality is that I'm not called to be God's little judge and punisher. Not being Lesbian myself, I see no reason to further torment someone who is struggling with it.

I was surprised to see this on BBC.

'My brothers tried to pray the gay away'

Actually trying to "pray the gay away" is an acknowledgment that being gay is something people have....like some kind of terminal disease almost. To my understanding, it is a genetic hiccup like any other 'abnormality'...we are all "abnormal" in varying degrees. We don't get to choose the way we are put together. Being gay is not usually a choice so how can it be judged as wickedness? It is deliberate actions that make one wicked.

To JW's it is immoral conduct that the Bible condemns, regardless of gender. Since sex is primarily for procreation, any kind of sexually immoral practice would come under that category.

For "Christians", it is immoral sex that is forbidden. Immoral sex is unlawful sexual activity from God's standpoint. If it is not contained within scriptural marriage, then no sex is lawful. It is God's arrangement so he gets to call the shots.

For those who are gay in our brotherhood, there is no room for marriage because scriptural marriage (as opposed to legal marriage) is not possible between same sex couples. That means sacrifice on their part.....but it is willing sacrifice....no one is forced to do anything against their will.

Being a Christian means traveling a 'cramped and narrow road' and we all have to make sacrifices to stay on it. But no sacrifice made will go unrewarded. We have a busy life and lots to do in the service of our God. No one is sitting around feeling sorry for themselves or being weighed down feeling deprived. Making sacrifices keeps us humble and obedient and that is all God asks of us. His spirit is more powerful than any human desire. If we love God more than we love ourselves, it will not be an unhappy life.

We are not the judge of anyone, but that doesn't mean promoting a lifestyle that God's word condemns just because it has now become embraced by an immoral world. Jesus warned that we would be hated by the world for following his teachings. (John 15:18-21) That is also a sacrifice.

That is how we see things....

 

[Ellen Brown]

Where did you get the idea that Lesbians are struggling with it?

Most are quite content with their sexuality.

The folks who struggling with LGBT sexualities are mostly Christians and other Theists, poor souls.

What about those who they persecute? I lost my family, job, and church over what they only thought I was doing. It took more than a decade for that to resolve its self.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think it is very, very rare but some evangelicals are trying to 'pray the gay away'. Very sad. Good of the BBC to highlight the issue, hopefully it'll help nip it in the bud.
I think I'm right in saying it is illegal (But I'm not sure?)

Unfortunately, it's fairly common in America, and legal in most states.

So I do question this idea that gay people can be happy with a proper opposite sex mate.

Of course someone who is heterosexual will know exactly how to turn a homosexual into a happy and content heterosexual, be it god and prayer or better *****/dick. I often wonder if such thinking stems from the idea of same-sex attractions seeming unnatural, so they install this potential avenue to turn what is unnatural into the natural.

 

[SomeRandom]

Of course someone who is heterosexual will know exactly how to turn a homosexual into a happy and content heterosexual, be it god and prayer or better *****/dick. I often wonder if such thinking stems from the idea of same-sex attractions seeming unnatural, so they install this potential avenue to turn what is unnatural into the natural.

Non conformity is always seemingly threatening it seems.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Non conformity is always seemingly threatening it seems.

Yup. It scares and shocks people when they see someone who can't be instantly thrust into a preset mold.

 

[SomeRandom]

Yup. It scares and shocks people when they see someone who can't be instantly thrust into a preset mold.

Hmm herd instincts, perhaps.

 

[oldbadger]

What about those who they persecute? I lost my family, job, and church over what they only thought I was doing. It took more than a decade for that to resolve its self.

Ellen, anybody, church, company who distanced itself from you for such reasons, even imagined reasons, wasn't worth being anywhere near.

Jesus got that absolutely correct, when he pointed out that it was his true friends who were his real family:-
Mark 3:31-35.

During my life I have lost people who I was very close to who suddenly distanced themselves from me because of untrue things which had been told about me. Who should I blame? ...... the slanderers or the people who could just dump friends without any search for any real truth? In fact I have now learned to treat people who slander me as useful sieves, because they help me get clear of shallow minded folks who I might have believed in.

 

[Jerusalem719]

Homosexuality is of satanic origin, it is not from god, and thats why i think it is a bad idea to ban conversion therapies. Because homosexuality is not, and never acceptable in society.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Homosexuality is of satanic origin, it is not from god, and thats why i think it is a bad idea to ban conversion therapies. Because homosexuality is not, and never acceptable in society.

Conversion therapy only works at turning people depressed and suicidal. It's been thoroughly demonstrated ineffective and dangerous, and denounced and condemned by health care organizations around the world.
And its a good thing homosexuals are finding acceptance in society. Is just not right someone suffer worse than they do because people are bigots.

 

[Jerusalem719]

Conversion therapy only works at turning people depressed and suicidal. It's been thoroughly demonstrated ineffective and dangerous, and denounced and condemned by health care organizations around the world.
And its a good thing homosexuals are finding acceptance in society. Is just not right someone suffer worse than they do because people are bigots.

The Problem is that according to the bible, acting out on homosexuality is a sin. So i cant really accept that. Sex should be obviously for procreating.

 

[Mock Turtle]

The Problem is that according to the bible, acting out on homosexuality is a sin. So i cant really accept that. Sex should be obviously for procreating.

Tough. Accepting tripe from a few thousand years ago might be more damaging to you though.

Try telling bonobos that sex is for procreation only! Get a decent education at least, that is, do some research!

 

[Jerusalem719]

Tough. Accepting tripe from a few thousand years ago might be more damaging to you though.

Try telling bonobos that sex is for procreation only! Get a decent education at least, that is, do some research!

Were not animals, or atleast we shou.d not act like animals, because god has a greater purpose for us, than just being animals.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Were not animals, or atleast we shou.d not act like animals, because god has a greater purpose for us, than just being animals.

Great. Dismiss all the scientific evidence and believe in a book written who knows when by who knows. No further comment.

 

[Jerusalem719]

Great. Dismiss all the scientific evidence and believe in a book written who knows when by who knows. No further comment.

What scientific evidence do you mean?