QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Hello guys.
Note:
Please remember that this is not a debate section. You're welcome to ask question and make respectful remarks (and everything else within the rules), however. Please also stay on topic as much as possible.
I'd like to speak of, discuss and share five points about convicting the adultery act in Islam. Those five are:
1- Requirement for adultery punishment convection.
2- Different punishments for adultery.
3- My view about stoning.
4- Personal comments.
5- How it compares to other religions. This is more of a point of participation from other members.
Okay, let's get started.
1- Requirements for punishment convection:
* The adulterer should be a pubescent adult, in their full mental power, free (not slave), did it by choice, and knowing of the prohibition, and there should be no doubt or suspicion in the occurrence. All these are basic requirements typically required for every other punishment applications.
* Having the glans of the male genitalia fully penetrating the female genitalia.
* Having no doubt, as mentioned in the first requirement, is very important, and examples include having the previous requirement mentioned above done by a man/woman confusing the woman/man with their spouse. This is possible to happen and other now-unknown doubts/suspicions could take place too. Any molecule of doubt and there should be no punishment.
* Confirmation of the occurrence of adultery, and that includes:
- Confession. And that is done that the suspect themselves confess committed adultery and insisting on it until the punishment is performed. Any pulling back at any moment, even right before that means there will be no adultery punishment and it will be included in the doubt part.
- Having the statement of adultery occurrence of four adult eyewitness Muslim men with no bad history or mental problems. Witnessing should cover clearly visibly and undoubtedly seeing the glans of the male genitalia fully penetrating the female genitalia, which is in my opinion almost impossible since Muslims are required to stop what they see wrong if they can. I'll talk about this in my personal comments below.
- Some views include proving it by logic, including scientific means, but I'm really not sure if could be included under suspicion. Video recording, however, could very well be included under the doubtfulness part due to video editing technologies these days.
2- Different punishments for adultery:
Adultery has two punishments:
1- 100 lashes.
2- Stoning, which seems to be controversial at some point. Stoning, however, has an extra requirement, and it is that the adulterers should have already had the legal allowed Islamic sexual intercourse described as the full penetration of the glans of the male genitalia in the female genitalia while being in a legal current or previous marriage. I believe stoning is not abrogated/superseded and it's not valid anymore.
3- My view about stoning:
I personally don't believe stoning is now a valid punishment at this very moment for one simple reason. It is that the Quran has a general punishment for adultery that does not mention stoning, and it is known that Quran is the first source of rules/laws in Islam. I know that in the time of the Prophet stoning took place (although only by confession and never by witnesses or suspecting, and I'll talk about this later), but I cannot find any proof that (this) those stoning(s) took place happened before or after the revealing of the subject Quranic verse. The Quranic verse generalized the punishment for all adulterers, and that would abrogate/supersede stoning for not including it, which was actually borrowed from previous Abrahamic religions as Islam is believed to be their continuation by Muslims and their laws/rules should be followed as long as Islam does not abrogate/supersede them. I still see there is a possibility that stoning is still valid, but I personally hope, taking the leniency approach, that my view is the right one.
4- Personal comments:
If we look at the requirements above, we see that they are strict and clear cut. I honestly feel that all adultery punishments we hear of around the world don't follow those rules well, and if a molecule is missed of the rules, it is all over, no punishment it there. It is sad to see that convicts get stoned for simply suspecting them. I honestly see that some of the requirements above are extremely difficult to meet, specially the one that involves witnessing the penetration by four men. I mean, first, Islam orders to stop such acts when seen as long as one can do it, either physically or verbally. And of course if under Islamic law one sees adultery they would at least yell at them and the suspect would of course run around like crazy for knowing the punishment. So it is extremely difficult to watch the suspects silently until they make the penetration. Second, and in addition to the first, it is extremely difficult to go and find three other men to watch along, let alone only one person ignoring the first point to watch it in full and clearly? Wait, how close would one get to clearly see the penetration? I mean, this in not porn movie to watch like that!!! When Islam was at its best, adultery had punishment only by confession. These days we unfortunately hear of adultery convictions for simple suspicions. That's really sad
5- How it compares to other religions. This is more of a point of participation from other members.
It is believed that adultery was/is prohibited in Judaism and Christianity before Islam and that at first Islam borrowed stoning from them. I'd like to hear of this from Jewish and Christian members of RF, as well as how is the case with other religions. How is it in Hinduism, Buddhism, Satanism, and other religions? Is adultery/fornication allowed or forbidden? Sharing in this regard is highly appreciated. It would be educational as well. Other Islamic views are welcomed as well.
Your vote is highly appreciated, and it could help making other similar threads.
Thank you for reading, and sorry for such a huge thread!
The government has absolutely no place dictating to consenting adults who they can or cannot have sexual relations with.
