Convince me to oppose death penalty

[suncowiam]

Your argument is like comparing the number one (or even the number 100 or 1000) with infinity.

A finite sentence, even to the end of their life, is just that-- a finite event.

Whereas death is infinite (well, may as well be-- yes I know the Earth will eventually be swallowed up by the sun one day, but...)

I simply do not see that the two are even close in comparison.

Re: Individuals choosing death? I think that would/should always be acceptable-- I do firmly believe in every individual's right to self-terminate, if they so choose.

I do not think this right should be removed, regardless-- the single exception if you can make a valid case that the individual in question is not of sound mind (and the definition of "sound mind" is left up as an exercise for the student, or perhaps for a different thread altogether).

Furthermore? I think it would be Humane, to always provide a safe, effective and entirely painless method of self-termination for anyone in prison for any reason, should someone wish to avail themselves of it.

To force someone to continue to exist, when they have determined they would rather not, is not only immoral, but is Evil with an E.

But that's just my opinion, of course...

And it's absolutely your opinion to make. I'm not taking that away but I have to note that that is an opinion.

 

[suncowiam]

But that's not how it works in reality since every single person on death row in the U.S. was convicted "beyond a shadow of doubt" because if there was any doubt whatsoever then the jury could not find the defendant guilty per judges' directions. And yet quite a few have been released after dna, one just a few weeks ago.

You're argument alludes to us never punishing anyone regardless of method because we cannot reach 100% certainty. I do not see why that should revolve around one method of punishment. Like my assertion with another, that suggests a subjective notion of which punishment is better.

 

[Estro Felino]

I'd say both systems, US and European have their flaws.

I understand you perfectly: you speak of extreme and hopeless cases...which btw are very rare and so... we can't upset our juridic principles for few people...
It would be necessary to ask our criminologists to find better principles that can justify the capital punishment for the hopeless cases....but the science of penal law is extremely complex...it depends on psychiatry and other social sciences.
Our system is inflexible. Some of the worst criminals died of old age in jail, alone...I think it does work.

In my country a man raped a 10 year old girl who he had just met, but it was not even ruled a rape because they argue, she didn't resist. I'd say they were thinking of the best for the perpetrator.

I'd say that's a special case. Rapes have ruined plenty victims in many ways to the point of killing themselves.

.

As usual...we are supposed not to reveal if the rapist is an immigrant or not. PC

 

[Jumi]

So you're saying you "hate" these kind of murderers and would take some kind of "pleasure" in seeing them executed?

Basically I want them to discontinue their influence and actions permanently.

Do you think I get some pleasure like the serial killers do from that if it happens?

 

[Jumi]

I, personally, would love to see this system implemented across the Globe.

Of course--you would necessarily need to include provision for folk who simply cannot be fixed. Those you would warehouse somehow, keeping them safely away from others.

Locked in a warehouse away from everyone doesn't sound much more humane than the death penalty to me. What about if they're innocent? The same applies as to death penalty. And besides it would be difficult to write a law where they would be treated worse than others.

Since it can't be done, they are going to be recording music and writing books to spread their message, giving out interviews. One of the killers even said he felt like he wasn't punished at all with the way things are here. I mean he gets to go on holidays, play guitar and write his racial message. What could be better for an activist wanting to get his mark in the world?

Being a Humanist, I do think this is a Worthy Goal, is it not? Can we not rise above the Beast Mode, where Eye For An Eye is the Law of the Land?

Are we not better than that? *sigh*... looking at what passes for "justice" in the USA? Apparently not...

I don't think it's eye for an eye we're looking at here. That was certainly an advance at the time those laws came out. Also the idea that you punish those more for crimes who have place in society, because they are supposed to have more influence, sounds good to me.

I understand you perfectly: you speak of extreme and hopeless cases...which btw are very rare and so... we can't upset our juridic principles for few people...
It would be necessary to ask our criminologists to find better principles that can justify the capital punishment for the hopeless cases....but the science of penal law is extremely complex.
Our system is inflexible. Some of the worst criminals died in jail...I think it does work.

I wouldn't want it to change if it worked. There are active serial killers loose and on holidays, continuing to spread their message.

As usual...we are supposed not to reveal if the rapist is an immigrant or not. PC

In Finland this changed, because our "alt right" started reporting each rapists name whether they were native or foreign, so it was better for the mainstream to report it first.

 

[HonestJoe]

Basically I want them to discontinue their influence and actions permanently.

Do you think I get some pleasure like the serial killers do from that if it happens?

You're not just saying you want to "discontinue their influence and actions", you're specifically saying you want them to be killed.

I don't know whether you'd take pleasure from that happening which is why I asked the question. It's really one only you can answer yourself, maybe only to yourself. It's just a matter of whether you're willing to truly consider and confront the possibility.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

nooo...u ...an European....are for death penalty?

(cries)

Lol. The Europeans are **** heads like everyone else.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

mean he gets to go on holidays, play guitar and write his racial message. What could be better for an activist wanting to get his mark in the world?

They don' all get to write anything

 

[Altfish]

Lol. The Europeans are **** heads like everyone else.

I'd describe the Europeans as 'advanced' - much of the US has yet to reach that level of development. The US is currently regressing to the 19th century; certain members of the UK government are trying to take us back there too.

 

[Jumi]

Lol. The Europeans are **** heads like everyone else.

Ain't that the truth.

 

[Jumi]

You're not just saying you want to "discontinue their influence and actions", you're specifically saying you want them to be killed.

The alternatives presented to that so far don't seem any more humane. Have any suggestions?

I don't know whether you'd take pleasure from that happening which is why I asked the question. It's really one only you can answer yourself, maybe only to yourself. It's just a matter of whether you're willing to truly consider and confront the possibility.

You seem to assume it or try to bring my character into question. Look at what you're saying. Maybe only you know if you don't enjoy something morally reprehensible. Just a matter of you seriously considering it, right?

 

[Shushersbedamned]

I'd describe the Europeans as 'advanced' - much of the US has yet to reach that level of development. The US is currently regressing to the 19th century; certain members of the UK government are trying to take us back there too.

I wouldn't call the people i meet at the traffic lights advanced more like retarded.

 

[Jumi]

They don' all get to write anything

In the West, most of them seem to have that courtesy.

 

[Jumi]

I wouldn't call the people i meet at the traffic lights advanced more like retarded.

So you hate regular people and people you feel are dumber than you. Now ain't that sweet but that's completely unhelpful offtopic.

 

[HonestJoe]

The alternatives presented to that so far don't seem any more humane. Have any suggestions?

I don’t think there is any good alternative, that’s why it’s an ongoing debate. If alternatives like life imprisonment are no more (or less) humane though, I think your question is the wrong way around. You need specific justification for killing anyone, rather than reasons not to.

You seem to assume it or try to bring my character into question. Look at what you're saying. Maybe only you know if you don't enjoy something morally reprehensible. Just a matter of you seriously considering it, right?

It was the implication I took from your OP which you’re free to address if you like. I’m not really bothered what you choose to post publicly though, I just think anyone proposing killing other human beings should think long and hard about the prospect first.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

In the West, most of them seem to have that courtesy.

Statistics please.

 

[Jumi]

I don’t think there is any good alternative, that’s why it’s an ongoing debate. If alternatives like life imprisonment are no more (or less) humane though, I think your question is the wrong way around. You need specific justification for killing anyone, rather than reasons not to.

While we're thinking hard we allow people who've killed to write their books and keep correspondence with their followers and when they're let go, at least in Europe, they often come back to enjoy the same.

It was the implication I took from your OP which you’re free to address if you like. I’m not really bothered what you choose to post publicly though, I just think anyone proposing killing other human beings should think long and hard about the prospect first.

So my distaste for certain people feeling pleasure in killing implies that I must feel it too, to think they are worth dying?

 

[Jumi]

Statistics please.

I'll give you just one example and see how you ignore it like in other threads.

Breivik writing a book in jail: lawyer

 

[Shushersbedamned]

I'll give you just one example and see how you ignore it like in other threads.

Breivik writing a book in jail: lawyer

I didn't ask for an example but statistics.

 

[Jumi]

I didn't ask for an example but statistics.

So you did.