Corona Virus

[Terrywoodenpic]

What is this thread about?
It now seems to be just bashing Trump, & defending the PRC.
Looks like I mistakenly treated an echo chamber seriously.

Trump is at war with China....
It is certain that when Bullied some intended victims will fight back.
China will never be a Victim. when attacked it always ends up stronger.
many have tried like Russia and Japan.
And rather like the British adsorbed the Vikings and Normans, the Chinese adsorbed the Mongols and learned from the experience.

A trade war with china will turn China to strengthen any weaknesses, it will become a competitor in all those fields denied to it.
America will find it even more difficult to trade with China. and will have its markets eroded in large parts of the world.

 

[Audie]

I'm not familiar enuf to say more than I have.
But I do see an advantage in being less dependent
upon hostile foreign sources for critical technology.

Hostile or otherwise!

But I do not think China is hostile to the USA.
Rival, sure.

Do you btw know what happened when then-great Britain
decided it was too reliant on Portugal for its war supplies?

 

[Audie]

Trump is at war with China....
It is certain that when Bullied some intended victims will fight back.
China will never be a Victim. when attacked it always ends up stronger.
many have tried like Russia and Japan.
And rather like the British adsorbed the Vikings and Normans, the Chinese adsorbed the Mongols and learned from the experience.

A trade war with china will turn China to strengthen any weaknesses, it will become a competitor in all those fields denied to it.
America will find it even more difficult to trade with China. and will have its markets eroded in large parts of the world.

In the absence of a crystal ball, we wont say that this is
more than a possibility.

 

[Audie]

On the Chinese IT issue there is another possible explanation, namely that Trumps' administration wants to scare governments into not using Huawei kit, in order to prevent China becoming a strong IT competitor to the USA (America First, and all that.) Trump has form for faking security scares in support of his trade agenda, cf. steel.

It seems the UK security services do not buy the Trump argument. They have experience of Huawei stuff and seem to think they can manage the risk. Pompeo seems to have conceded the point, which makes the argument look like a try-on rather than a genuine concern.

British intelligence did not prepare them for what
Germany and Japan were up to. Manage the risk, and all.

 

[Revoltingest]

Hostile or otherwise!

But I do not think China is hostile to the USA.
Rival, sure.

Do you btw know what happened when then-great Britain
decided it was too reliant on Portugal for its war supplies?

I see China as hostile, with great potential for increased
conflict, particularly over Taiwan & the S China Sea.
Dependence on friendly tech sources is arguably safer
than upon hostile ones, should conflict escalate.

 

[Audie]

Chinese are ambitious, smart, & sneaky....& inscrutable.
Just look at @Audie.

I must be tired, I find myself stucken with the
spirit of the escalator.

 

[Revoltingest]

I must be tired, I find myself stucken with the
spirit of the escalator.

I finally know what that means.
Damn highly educated Asians!

 

[Audie]

I see China as hostile, with great potential for increased
conflict, particularly over Taiwan & the S China Sea.
Dependence on friendly tech sources is arguably safer
than upon hostile ones, should conflict escalate.

Ah so desu ka.

Now, I though do think the claims to S China (get it, China) sea
are excessive, try thinking of it like this..

China intervened in your civil war, and is still preventing
reunification with one state, say Florida.

China flies surveillance planes along your coasts, and
maintains a fleet presence in the gulf of mexico.

Used to run gunboats up and down the mississippi.

Etc.

The USA has no business intervening for Taiwan.

In the event, reunification will come about eventually, and there
is no call for some highly destructive military action.

The USA would not intervene, if a conflict did start.

China could disrupt maritime trade going thro the straits
but all the rest of the shipping on the worlds oceans
is done by grace of the USA permitting it. Who has
the stronger hand?

 

[Revoltingest]

Look it up, ya cretinous swab!!!

"Strucken" was a mistypo but I liked it.

That's how I knew it, ya pint sized, noodle slurp'n,
gun tote'n, miserable excuse for a kung fu master!

 

[Audie]

That's how I knew it, ya pint sized, noodle slurp'n,
gun tote'n, miserable excuse for a kung fu master!

Now you made me cry.

 

[Revoltingest]

Now you made me cry.

Your wiley ways won't work on me, toots!

 

[exchemist]

I'm not familiar enuf to say more than I have.
But I do see an advantage in being less dependent
upon hostile foreign sources for critical technology.
As for potential nefarious Trump motives, I can't
speak to that.

What the UK seems to have decided is to place part of the order (35%, in non-critical parts of the network) with Huawei and the rest with EU based suppliers.

It would be nice to think the UK could trust the motives of the US in things like this, but with the current administration I do not think we can.

 

[Audie]

Your wiley ways won't work on me, toots!

Rats.

 

[exchemist]

That is as over the top as anything you think T is
saying or doing, but-
I do not think it wise or good at all, that he has
been arousing anti Chinese feelings.

This virus is in itself doing that, all around the
world. I nope none of our RFers would go so low.

I nope?

 

[Audie]

I nope?

Must be one of those revelatory mistypos that we hear
about.

I am a terrible proof reader, I just look at the shape of words.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

That is as over the top as anything you think T is
saying or doing, but-
I do not think it wise or good at all, that he has
been arousing anti Chinese feelings.

This virus is in itself doing that, all around the
world. I nope none of our RFers would go so low.

On the contrary. I think the Chines are just going about their business as they have always done. they are one of the worlds very best doers and traders.
They produce what the world wants at the quality and price that they want and on time.
They are excellent friends and scary enemies.

It is true that they are on a different social road to other countries. but in the long term they will change to what ever system is best for China.

If anyone can, they will develop a system than incorporates the best aspect of capitalism and of socialism.
As we have often seen they deal very harshly with anyone including at the highest level, who are found to be corrupt. there laws tend to the absolute.

Even a billionaire who steps over the line is executed.

Their leadership though absolute, is the antithesis of Trump which is based on emotion and lack of any factual basis.

As to the Corona virus. I doubt any country could have handled the situation as well as the Chinese authorities. At the very least they have given the world time to deal with the situation when it reaches them. I doubt any other country could have have mobilised themselves so quickly.

However they must now face another major challenge of supplying millions of people with the food, Water, energy, and medical supplies, that they need. I do not doubt that this is already at an advanced stage.

The corona virus leap from animal to human seems to be exacerbated by the practice of keeping live food animals in close proximity to extremely dense populations. Had the same transmission occurred in a country village or farm, it would likely have begun and ended with the family concerned. The large local population has added fuel to the fire.

Looking to China's ability to plan long term. we may well see a change in this practice in future. though it is traditional throughout Asia and Africa.

 

[Audie]

On the contrary. I think the Chines are just going about their business as they have always done. they are one of the worlds very best doers and traders.
They produce what the world wants at the quality and price that they want and on time.
They are excellent friends and scary enemies.

It is true that they are on a different social road to other countries. but in the long term they will change to what ever system is best for China.

If anyone can, they will develop a system than incorporates the best aspect of capitalism and of socialism.
As we have often seen they deal very harshly with anyone including at the highest level, who are found to be corrupt. there laws tend to the absolute.

Even a billionaire who steps over the line is executed.

Their leadership though absolute, is the antithesis of Trump which is based on emotion and lack of any factual basis.

As to the Corona virus. I doubt any country could have handled the situation as well as the Chinese authorities. At the very least they have given the world time to deal with the situation when it reaches them. I doubt any other country could have have mobilised themselves so quickly.

However they must now face another major challenge of supplying millions of people with the food, Water, energy, and medical supplies, that they need. I do not doubt that this is already at an advanced stage.

The corona virus leap from animal to human seems to be exacerbated by the practice of keeping live food animals in close proximity to extremely dense populations. Had the same transmission occurred in a country village or farm, it would likely have begun and ended with the family concerned. The large local population has added fuel to the fire.

Looking to China's ability to plan long term. we may well see a change in this practice in future. though it is traditional throughout Asia and Africa.

Sheesh, I am always accused of being the China-apologist.

Your give more credit than I do.

China is awful corrupt, and the justice you mention is meted
out to those who step on the wrong toes.


But yeah, in general, you are correct.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Hostile or otherwise!


But I do not think China is hostile to the USA.
Rival, sure.

Do you btw know what happened when then-great Britain
decided it was too reliant on Portugal for its war supplies?

Interestingly Portugal is now rated Britians oldest ally.
Though it was a competitor in the far east.
Though I do not believe Hong Kong and Macao ever came to serious blows.

 

[Audie]

Interestingly Portugal is now rated Britians oldest ally.
Though it was a competitor in the far east.
Though I do not believe Hong Kong and Macao ever came to serious blows.

do you know the story of portugal and the red dye for soldiers'
coats?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Sheesh, I am always accused of being the China-apologist.

Your give more credit than I do.

China is awful corrupt, and the justice you mention is meted
out to those who step on the wrong toes.


But yeah, in general, you are correct.

From the days of the Mandarins, China's authority has been well structured but subject to wide corruption.
Even the excellent exam system leading to eventual appointment was subject to ghost candidates taking the exam for less bright but wealthy and otherwise able candidates.

I suspect that the emperor and the authorities always understood the weaknesses in the system but used them to their advantage.
A corrupt person must always perform to the highest level for his "knowing" superior, or he and his family would end up dead.
In the mean time he would have a fine life style.

I suspect the same principal is used to control the new super rich.

The super rich should make sure that they know who they owe for their continued success and existence.
It is not fair, but it ensure that the people with the highest ability do the jobs that need doing.
Like the Mandarins before them they live in luxury as long as they perform.
At any time their business and wealth can revert to the state.

It would seem that the same system works at all levels
to the benefit of the state.

Corruption when known and understood can be a power of the state.

It is used equally well in the Capitalist system.