Could it be this simple?

[blackout]

Fair enough, but to counter your dig at Gods love being fluffy, it was through both His goodness and His wrath that I found my faith. : hamster :

To clarify, I did not suggest that love itself is fluffy.
I said that "God is Love!" BANNERS are fluffy.

Wondering from the conversation,
what is your "faith"?
You seem like some kind of a cross between a christian and a panthiest,
or panenthiest.

 

[Tre-L]

Is wrath beneficial and conducive to our well being , happiness and survival?!

Flies her "god is wrath" banner.




(PS. I can't see your pic or youtube or whatever it is
from this computer.)

is right, but it is true for the majority of people.

It was a song that I posted. Here are the lyrics:

""Well, I grew up back in the sticks.
I was raised on cornbread and scripture,
And praise God, for teachin' me wrong from right.
I had a wild streak three counties wide.
The Devil had me dead in his site.
It was the hand of God that kept me out of the hands of the law.

Mama brought the Bible, Daddy brought the belt.
Mama set the table, Daddy rung the bell.
The preacher did his best to show me the light,
But Daddy was the one that kept me walkin' the line.
Mama sang the gospel, Daddy drove it home.
Mama was an angel, Daddy was the brimstone.
One foot in Heaven, one foot in Hell,
I found religion 'tween the Bible and the Belt.

I guess it rings true what the "Good Book" says,
What you learn young, you never forget.
Daddy's belt left quite an impression on me.
I can still hear Mama's voice in the choir.
She set the whole dang church on fire,
and it still burns in the deepest part of me.

Mama brought the Bible, Daddy brought the belt.
Mama set the table, Daddy rung the bell.
The preacher did his best to show me the light,
But Daddy was the one that kept me walkin' the line.
Mama sang the gospel, Daddy drove it home.
Mama was an angel, Daddy was the brimstone.
One foot in Heaven, one foot in Hell.
I found religion 'tween the Bible and the Belt.

Mama sang the gospel, Daddy drove it home.
Mama was an angel, Daddy was the brimstone.
One foot in Heaven, one foot in Hell,
I found religion 'tween the Bible and the Belt..

One foot in heaven, one foot in Hell,
I found religion 'tween the Bible and the belt.""

 

[blackout]

I must admit,
I am now totally lost.

I'll let someone else take a turn now.
lol

 

[Misty]

I find the OP hard to understand.

 

[Tre-L]

I must admit,
I am now totally lost.

I'll let someone else take a turn now.
lol

lol, I was just having some fun, but was also making a point. Life itself can lead us to esteem and value love above our propensity to act selfishly, and without regard for others. We live in a world of law and consequence, and it is through both consequence and reward that many come to desire the positives in life, as opposed to the negatives. Although I think Christianity is false, I also believe that there are many truths to be realized in scripture. Surely it isn't a case of all or nothing like so many come to believe. I myself don't think that scripture is needed at all, but I do believe that we need love if we desire to live in a world better than the one we live in today. It just so happens that the scriptures introduced me to Jesus, and Jesus to the necessity of love.

 

[Darkness]

Everything I once believed about Christianity has come to a head, and has been challenged to such a degree that I have come to believe that the Christian religion is false (Along with all others), but also that the message of Christ is true.

I look back at the old testament all the way to the new, and have come to the point where I feel I must ditch the religious baggage of it all in favor of simple submission to God, who I believe to be love. Btw, this is a very real change of heart, and deprogramming myself from a lifetime of indoctrination was a painful experience.

I'm thinking about what Jesus said about pouring new wine into old wine skins. It would seem that in order for mankind to be made new, we must empty ourselves completely of our past indoctrination, starting with a clean (New) slate, and then fill ourselves only with God's Spirit, which is love (The new wine).

The old wine (Religion) might "seem" better to some, but I think Jesus pretty much told us to ditch it all, and start with a clean slate, and a new heart so we might be filled with Gods Spirit, which is truth. Everything else weighs us down, and ultimately leads to our (Mankind's) destruction.

Think about the way many Christians and many who follow other religions are intolerant of others and extremely hateful towards them (Atheists, homosexuals, and those who practice different religions than their own, etc). These type of Christians and religious zealots are those who will be destroyed by the "new wine" simply because their ways are not in agreement with the "Spirit", nor are their ways conducive to love and peace.

Could it be that one day their own beliefs will be challenged, and they will either continue on the broken road, remaining intolerant of those they share the world with, or they will submit to God in all they do, and accept others for who they are? I suppose time will tell.

I'm one who believes that God answers those who call on Him, but also that we must be willing to hear Him, and then allow ourselves to submit to Him and live through His Spirit (Love) completely. Otherwise we are apt to lead destructive lives and many people will suffer because of. Love is surely the answer, and it is submission to love (God) that Christ taught mankind. The rest is man attempting to rule over man, which seems to cause a great deal of conflict.

So .... What are we fighting each other for? It seems to me that we should accept others where they are in life, and love one another no matter what others believe about God. I think the atheists and agnostics are better geared to accept love than are those who have been indoctrinated by years of religious muck, which ultimately leads to the intolerance of those we share this world with.

Belief in God isn't necessary to esteem and value love after all, nor is it necessary to live our lives with love for all people. Could it be this simple? Could love be the way that will lead mankind to life, and religion the way that will lead mankind to destruction? I can't help but think of all the violent conflicts fought in the name of ones religion, and likewise I can't think of one violent conflict fought in the name of love.

Religion vs. Love (Could it "really" be this simple?) :yes:

Tre-L

Everything you said here, reminds me of my de-conversion thought-process. After I went through the whole Christian Universalism - God is Pure Love - it turned out to just be a fleeting phase, for me though. I could no longer justify a belief in the existence of God scientifically, empirically or morally.

 

[Tre-L]

I find the OP hard to understand.

I myself believe that religion is false, but also that love can lead us to an abundant life, whether a belief in God is held or not. It isn't a complicated view, Misty. Btw, although romantic love can be pleasing, it isn't romantic love I'm speaking about, but rather the kind where we desire to help those who need it most (Love is action in other words)

[youtube]MCMTmXPXkMA[/youtube]
Another Video:

 

[Tre-L]

Everything you said here, reminds me of my de-conversion thought-process. After I went through the whole Christian Universalism - God is Pure Love - it turned out to just be a fleeting phase, for me though. I could no longer justify a belief in the existence of God scientifically, empirically or morally.

Does a person need to believe in Gods person to value and esteem love?

 

[Tre-L]

To clarify, I did not suggest that love itself is fluffy.
I said that "God is Love!" BANNERS are fluffy.

Wondering from the conversation,
what is your "faith"?
You seem like some kind of a cross between a christian and a panthiest,
or panenthiest.

My faith is simply in love, Violet. The rest is baggage, as we cannot know Gods reality, but we do have enough intellect and foresight to see where love can take us as a collective whole.

 

[Darkness]

Does a person need to believe in Gods person to value and esteem love?

I don't think a person needs to believe in any divinity or spirituality to value and esteem love.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Everything I once believed about Christianity has come to a head, and has been challenged to such a degree that I have come to believe that the Christian religion is false (Along with all others), but also that the message of Christ is true.

I look back at the old testament all the way to the new, and have come to the point where I feel I must ditch the religious baggage of it all in favor of simple submission to God, who I believe to be love. Btw, this is a very real change of heart, and deprogramming myself from a lifetime of indoctrination was a painful experience.

I'm thinking about what Jesus said about pouring new wine into old wine skins. It would seem that in order for mankind to be made new, we must empty ourselves completely of our past indoctrination, starting with a clean (New) slate, and then fill ourselves only with God's Spirit, which is love (The new wine).

The old wine (Religion) might "seem" better to some, but I think Jesus pretty much told us to ditch it all, and start with a clean slate, and a new heart so we might be filled with Gods Spirit, which is truth. Everything else weighs us down, and ultimately leads to our (Mankind's) destruction.

Think about the way many Christians and many who follow other religions are intolerant of others and extremely hateful towards them (Atheists, homosexuals, and those who practice different religions than their own, etc). These type of Christians and religious zealots are those who will be destroyed by the "new wine" simply because their ways are not in agreement with the "Spirit", nor are their ways conducive to love and peace.

Could it be that one day their own beliefs will be challenged, and they will either continue on the broken road, remaining intolerant of those they share the world with, or they will submit to God in all they do, and accept others for who they are? I suppose time will tell.

I'm one who believes that God answers those who call on Him, but also that we must be willing to hear Him, and then allow ourselves to submit to Him and live through His Spirit (Love) completely. Otherwise we are apt to lead destructive lives and many people will suffer because of. Love is surely the answer, and it is submission to love (God) that Christ taught mankind. The rest is man attempting to rule over man, which seems to cause a great deal of conflict.

So .... What are we fighting each other for? It seems to me that we should accept others where they are in life, and love one another no matter what others believe about God. I think the atheists and agnostics are better geared to accept love than are those who have been indoctrinated by years of religious muck, which ultimately leads to the intolerance of those we share this world with.

Belief in God isn't necessary to esteem and value love after all, nor is it necessary to live our lives with love for all people. Could it be this simple? Could love be the way that will lead mankind to life, and religion the way that will lead mankind to destruction? I can't help but think of all the violent conflicts fought in the name of ones religion, and likewise I can't think of one violent conflict fought in the name of love.

Religion vs. Love (Could it "really" be this simple?) :yes:

Tre-L

It could be even more simple, in fact.