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Could Jesus have been wrong?

Hawk Flint

Member
There are those of the Christian faith, most I tend to think, who would say Jesus knew everything there was to know because he was the Son of God. But it is possible someone could recognize that he was in fact ignorant of a great many things, wrong in a lot of cases, yet it not diminish his standing as a spiritual teacher, or to be called the Son of God?

He was ignorant of something? I can't tell if you're saying that He actually was or you're asking IF He was.

Is in necessary for the Enlightened ones to be beyond anything earthly, like making mistakes?

He was led by God, how could He make a mistake?

Let me expand that a little to say must he have not had any flaws? No personality quirks? No fearful responses? No anger? Not hurting others through his own processes of figuring out who he was as a person?

Anger and fear are not flaws. But there is an evil anger, and a righteous anger. Remember that even God gets angry. I don't know any verse in the Bible that clearly says that Jesus feared, but I'm sure that when He was tempted that He may have feared sinning and falling like Adam did. But remember that it never says specifically that He feared.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Well, it is possible that He did make mistakes. Like, whe He had just started carpentry He might have messed a few times or something. But He didn't make any mistakes that were sinful, or evil.
Evil, I doubt. Mistakes, I don't. His Wisdom is a result of overcoming challenges in himself. The passionate soul, is the most insightful.
 

Hawk Flint

Member
Turned water into wine and got a wedding party intoxicated.

Christ was actually helping by providing wine (and, at that time, wine was an integral part of the marriage. It was a Jewish custom.), because not providing sufficient wine is an insult to the guests and thereby a shame to the newly wed.


Whipped a Priest for doing his job.

Isaiah 56:7 "...for my house will be called a house of prayer for all peoples." Does this sound like a place meant for people to create a market place? That's what those priests did. God issued a judgment upon them: They got whipped for turning God's house into a market where they cheated people.

Harvested and collected wood on Sabbath.

Scripture refs please?

Killed a fig tree ....

How is that sinful? There was a form of food that could grow on the fig tree at the time called "taksh" that grew on the tips of the leaves of the fig tree or something. It was a spiritual lesson, they (a righteous person) stopped producing fruit (good works), and thus, was cursed.
 

ronandcarol

Member
Premium Member
Could Jesus have been wrong?
I'm goin' with probably not. He was divine, Holy, sinless, perfect,
the Son of God, our creator, our King, our Savior, our redeemer, and on and on.

ronandcarol
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Could Jesus have been wrong?
I'm goin' with probably not. He was divine, Holy, sinless, perfect,
the Son of God, our creator, our King, our Savior, our redeemer, and on and on.

ronandcarol
So then we have a High Priest who cannot be touched by human hands, who is not like one of us?
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I'm asking this question to Christians, and others who might wish to reply. There are those of the Christian faith, most I tend to think, who would say Jesus knew everything there was to know because he was the Son of God. But it is possible someone could recognize that he was in fact ignorant of a great many things, wrong in a lot of cases, yet it not diminish his standing as a spiritual teacher, or to be called the Son of God? Is in necessary for the Enlightened ones to be beyond anything earthly, like making mistakes?

Let me expand that a little to say must he have not had any flaws? No personality quirks? No fearful responses? No anger? Not hurting others through his own processes of figuring out who he was as a person? No errors he later corrected on a path of growth, like any one of us? Did he somehow escape all that? Was he "perfect" beyond any and all human struggles? Is this how you see Jesus? Please share.

I'm curious to hear mostly Christians reply to this, but others are welcome as well.
One could look at is as Jesus was wrong on a great many things, others might think, maybe I'm wrong and I don't have it figured out yet myself. The only way i know about Jesus is through the bible, and Jesus seemed to have it all put together.
 

Eliab ben Benjamin

Active Member
Premium Member
the sad part is nothing is written or stated by Y'shua .. only the hearsay by his apparent followers and written by a generation after ...
so not exactly eye witness ...
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
One could look at is as Jesus was wrong on a great many things, others might think, maybe I'm wrong and I don't have it figured out yet myself. The only way i know about Jesus is through the bible, and Jesus seemed to have it all put together.
Does that image created of him as flawless make him someone you can relate to and aspire to be like?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I'm asking this question to Christians, and others who might wish to reply. There are those of the Christian faith, most I tend to think, who would say Jesus knew everything there was to know because he was the Son of God. But it is possible someone could recognize that he was in fact ignorant of a great many things, wrong in a lot of cases, yet it not diminish his standing as a spiritual teacher, or to be called the Son of God? Is in necessary for the Enlightened ones to be beyond anything earthly, like making mistakes?

Let me expand that a little to say must he have not had any flaws? No personality quirks? No fearful responses? No anger? Not hurting others through his own processes of figuring out who he was as a person? No errors he later corrected on a path of growth, like any one of us? Did he somehow escape all that? Was he "perfect" beyond any and all human struggles? Is this how you see Jesus? Please share.

I'm curious to hear mostly Christians reply to this, but others are welcome as well.
I wonder if He sneezed or coughed
and when He told His disciples.....I go over there to pray.....alone....
was that what He really did?

He had plenty of anger.....ask me...
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
From Cyril of Alexandria, Doctor of the Church, "We have admired his goodness in that for love of us he has not refused to descend to such a low position as to bear all that belongs to our nature, INCLUDED IN WHICH IS IGNFORANCE."
Scripture tells us that Jesus 'grew in stature and wisdom'. There is a difference in knowing something from conviction and foreknowledge. And the difference between Mark and John concerning Jesus humanness is striking. And once again the Christology of those who wrote the Gospels is apparent. Mark, Matthew and Luke begin with the earthly Jesus, his Baptism, conception and birth. The high Christology of John's gospel Jesus is God from pre-existence.

I don't see a problem with attributing anger to Jesus. But there are lessons in how to control anger and still make a point. A good example of Jesus channeling anger against the Roman occupiers of Judea is Jesus' 'turn the other cheek'. When looked more closely it is non-violent resistance.

http://www.reenactingtheway.com/blog/turning-the-other-cheek-jesus-peaceful-plan-to-challenge-injustice
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
He did not know the hour of His return....

"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." Mathew 24:36
 

The Master Motive

New Member
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Hawkins

Well-Known Member
I'm asking this question to Christians, and others who might wish to reply. There are those of the Christian faith, most I tend to think, who would say Jesus knew everything there was to know because he was the Son of God. But it is possible someone could recognize that he was in fact ignorant of a great many things, wrong in a lot of cases, yet it not diminish his standing as a spiritual teacher, or to be called the Son of God? Is in necessary for the Enlightened ones to be beyond anything earthly, like making mistakes?

Let me expand that a little to say must he have not had any flaws? No personality quirks? No fearful responses? No anger? Not hurting others through his own processes of figuring out who he was as a person? No errors he later corrected on a path of growth, like any one of us? Did he somehow escape all that? Was he "perfect" beyond any and all human struggles? Is this how you see Jesus? Please share.

I'm curious to hear mostly Christians reply to this, but others are welcome as well.

You are applying a human standard here. God's standard on the other hand is whether Jesus has sinned against His Law. If not, Jesus can remain as human as He is.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You are applying a human standard here. God's standard on the other hand is whether Jesus has sinned against His Law. If not, Jesus can remain as human as He is.
I'm not applying a standard. The question is really about how people in deifying Jesus, de-humanize him. They imagine he knew everything, glided through life without having to figure things out through trial and error, pain and frustration, anger and angst, just like the rest of us. The image they create is that of someone who just glided through life, above such idiot choices, surprise moments of learning, being corrected, feeling embarrassed and so forth, like us. The only struggle that's spoken of is the Garden of Gethsemane, and the moment on the cross. Does this sound like a human you could relate to?
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
I don't think it would be safe to say wrong in "a lot of cases". There are very rare cases where Jesus lets his bias get the better of him. Even in the case where he refers to a woman as a dog, he is going beyond the bias of his followers by even helping the lady.
Matthew 15:26
Although maybe he knew he was wrong, on purpose perhaps, cause she seemed to win the argument. It may be a lesson to teach Jews about being "chosen".
Matthew 15:28

Jesus also had bias about trees not baring fruit but thats where it really appears to me that the stories and miracles are wholly allegorical to greater truths.
Matthew 21:19

Anything else I can think of was well beyond Jesus's time, showing compassion and forgiveness that his own followers had a hard time with in many instances.

Jesus was not born knowing everything. The connection to His soul grew as His human body grew. At the time of His traveling and preaching His connection was fully developed and He knew who He really was. Jesus is the architect of this universe. He designed, within guidelines, and supervised it's formation and the formation of the many angels that it takes to operate a universe.

Jesus now has access to all the knowledge in this universe but He does not have access to the knowledge about other universes so, He does not know "everything". Having access to all knowledge does not mean you are without error. Jesus on the Earth was in a human body so He had emotions.

Could Jesus have been wrong? One mistake that Jesus made was turning water into wine at the wedding. Jesus had decided not to perform miracles in view of humans because that would be absolute proof and essentially remove their element of choice but the universe follows Jesus desires instantly, not just His spoken word.

Jesus mother Mary had received a visit from an angel before Jesus birth telling her that her child Jesus would be the Son of God. Mary wanted Jesus to become a leader and help free the Jews from the Romans but Jesus refused to lead the fight. Mary was very confused as Jesus grew up. Then, many years later, at the wedding when the wine ran out, Mary asked Jesus to do something and she fully expected Jesus to perform a miracle. Jesus verbally refused her but inside He did not want to disappoint his mother and it was done instantly. Water became wine.

As for the Matthew 15:26 quote. Jesus did not refer to women as dogs. What He was saying "It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs", is that you don't use great things on useless causes. The child had a severe mental disability. But, He did cure the child when the mother continued begging. I know you will think that His action, at first, was heartless but the angels and Jesus and even God don't exist to give you what you want. God wanted varied experiences, not experiences of the rich and lazy and selfish.


Matthew 21:19, Jesus did not have a bias about trees not bearing fruit. The bias was towards a fruit tree that did not bear fruit. And, it was a tree so don't try and change the context and apply it to humanity.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
It was rare in those days. Lack of ignorance should be helping us these days.

Not sure because there are missing years. Though the stories have him as very wise as a young lad. However it does talk of him fasting for 40 days and being tempted which is similar to the temptations that Buddha faced before becoming enlightened.

There are no missing years. The Urantia Book details every year of Jesus life, even before His birth and after.

When Jesus left to wander the hills He had arranged for a young boy to leave Him food at a certain rock. Also, the reason Jesus went walking in the hills was because His soul connection had fully developed and He knew who He was and He had to attend to some universal business, namely, the Lucifer Rebellion.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
This was wrong: "a grain of mustard seed, which, when sown upon the ground, is the smallest of all the seeds on earth" Mark 4:31 (RSV)

When you teach you have to use the language that your students understand and, when teaching a parable, sometimes you use commonly used terms that your current audience is familiar with.

While the mustard seed might not be the smallest of all seeds, it matters not. The parable is about something seemingly insignificant that develops into something remarkable.

If Jesus tried to tell them that the Conupia seed that grows on planet Zee is actually the smallest seed in the universe but that it grows up into a giant Conupia tree, what would his audience have thought?
 
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