godnotgod
Thou art That
see here:
http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/god-vs-science-is-there-a-point.191195/page-8#post-4925895
Did you previously say that consciousness and their objects arise together, according to the Heart Sutra?
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Could Nothingness Be Another Dimension In And Of Itself?
- Thread starter Runewolf1973
- Start date
see here:
http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/god-vs-science-is-there-a-point.191195/page-8#post-4925895
Did you previously say that consciousness and their objects arise together, according to the Heart Sutra?
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
The universe is 'packaged' conceptually as finite space-time so that the finite human mind can understand the universal environment in which we live, move, and have our being....
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Haha.... but by some miracles...here we are....
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Er? How does that relate to your previous comment?
"Time is a concept created by consciousness, it has no intrinsic reality of itself......not in the way space is intrinsically real independent of consciousness.."
You seem to be saying that space is "real" but time isn't? Based on what, exactly?
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godnotgod
Thou art That
Haha.... but by some miracles...here we are....
It has been said that, if we could be God and have anything we wanted, we would perhaps at first choose to dream great adventures and pleasures, each night's dream lasting for many many years. After a few nights of this, we would get bored and want a surprise. So we would dream that we would wake up right where we are right now.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
I previously said that the Heart Sutra contradicts your new-age beliefs. Of course you don't care, because your only concern is preaching your new-age dogma, and you twist everything to suit that agenda.
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Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Space clearly is what everything that exists occupies, it is omnipresent, time otoh is a concept that represents the measurement of the continued existence of space and everything in it...
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Imagine space without time. What would that be like?
godnotgod
Thou art That
The Heart Sutra says that the five skandhas are empty of self-nature, and because they are empty, cannot exist independently, but must depend upon the other four. The five skandhas are form, feeling, perception, impulse and consciousness. Form pertains to all of the objects of the universe. Consciousness is one of the other four skandhas that form is dependent upon.
godnotgod
Thou art That
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
None of the aggregates have independent or inherent existence, and that includes consciousness. This contradicts your new-age claims about "Cosmic Consciousness" being a fundamental force that permeates the universe, and the big bang being an "event in consciousness".
Either you haven't understood the Heart Sutra, or you are deliberately misrepresenting what it says. On past evidence I suspect the latter to be true, since you continually twist Buddhist teachings in an attempt to prop up your new-age dogma. You also post fake Buddha quotes. You are simply not a trustworthy source when it comes to Buddhism.
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Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Nonsense. Without time there would be no space-time, no cosmos. Space and time are the fabric of the cosmos and BEGAN with the big bang.
Your new-age beliefs about consciousness are irrelevant here.
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Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Without time there would be no space-time, ie no cosmos. Space and time are the fabric of the cosmos and BEGAN with the big bang.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Timeless...which it actually is...
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Nonsense. Without time there would be no space-time, ie no cosmos. Space and time are the fabric of the cosmos and BEGAN with the big bang.
And on a practical level you are only conscious because things change over time.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
The concept of 'time' is abstracted from the timeless nature of the concept of 'eternity'....it is a mental construct that is a human evolutionary appropriate measurement of abstracted finite segments of the eternal presence of existence. And btw, I know many people who believe that cosmic existence began with the theoretical big bang...but none can explain how such a miracle could happen?
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Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Listen to yourself....without 'time'...a human derived measurement of the persistence of existence...there would be no cosmos... As if the the fate of cosmic existence is dependent on mortal mental perception...
Of course consciousness is dependent on change...but the measurement of the change is what mortals call time... Change though is not time....the cosmos changes eternally...there was never a beginning, not will there be an end....the cosmos is timeless..
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Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Time is an integral feature of space-time, which is the fabric of the cosmos. Without time there would be nothing, because nothing would happen. Without time you would have never been born. Without time you wouldn't have conscious experience. It all happens "in" time, or more accurately, in space-time.
We experience time very directly, we experience CHANGE, it is not a conceptual overlay. I am puzzled by your stubborn rejection of the basic science, and of what we actually experience.
We experience time very directly, we experience CHANGE, it is not a conceptual overlay. I am puzzled by your stubborn rejection of the basic science, and of what we actually experience.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
You do not experience time...you experience change...and the measurement of change is named 'time'... Birds experience change...they know nothing of the concept of time...no clocks.
godnotgod
Thou art That
Without space-time, there is no change. Consciousness is not dependent upon space or time. Space-Time is only a conceptual overlay onto Reality. It is not real itself. So without space or time, there is only The Changeless Consciousness, which is No-thing-ness, and out of which Every-thing emerged.
That the BB even occurred is an illusion. There is only The Changeless Absolute. The rest is pure fluff, MAYA, as the Hindus call it.
“We live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all.”
Kalu Rinpoche