Could Russian Generals Disobey an Order to Use Nukes?

[Debater Slayer]

Let's say Putin became unhinged and suicidal enough to use nukes as one last middle finger to his enemies. Could Russian generals refuse to comply with his order to launch nukes and instead perhaps depose or even execute him? I really hope they wouldn't simply obey such an insane order, but I don't know.

Would the chain of command really override generals' desire to live and not start a nuclear war?

 

[ChristineM]

New Let's say Putin became unhinged

Became? I think he's past that.

Would the chain of command really override generals' desire to live and not start a nuclear war?

I would like to think so but i really do not know

 

[Debater Slayer]

Became? I think he's past that.

I think he has been unhinged for years, but using nukes would be a whole other level of derangement. He would also need to be suicidal and not just unhinged to that extreme level.

It's all terrifying to ponder. Someone who belongs behind bars or in a mental institution is at the helm of the world's most powerful nuclear arsenal.

 

[ChristineM]

I think he has been unhinged for years, but using nukes would be a whole other level of derangement. He would also need to be suicidal and not just unhinged to that extreme level.

It's all terrifying to ponder. Someone who belongs behind bars or in a mental institution is at the helm of the world's most powerful nuclear arsenal.

On friday russian forces shelled the biggest nuclear power station in europe. Just the slightest error and much of Europe and Wester Russia would have been rendered uninhabitable for many years, and caused loss of life in many thousands.

The guy who ok'd this attack has lost it in my opinion and the chain of command followed through. This, to me is the most frightening event of this war so far.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Let's say Putin became unhinged and suicidal enough to use nukes as one last middle finger to his enemies. Could Russian generals refuse to comply with his order to launch nukes and instead perhaps depose or even execute him? I really hope they wouldn't simply obey such an insane order, but I don't know.

Would the chain of command really override generals' desire to live and not start a nuclear war?

Do you think those generals love their families too?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Do you think those generals love their families too?

I would guess at least some do. If some mafia bosses are deeply loyal to their families, I don't see why a general in a dictatorship can't be as well.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I’m holding on to the hope that, should Vlad the Invader order the use of the doomsday weapon, whoever was responsible for carrying out the order would refuse. And that the angels of their better nature would cause Putin’s generals to restrain their hand.

While history suggests there are no atrocities of which humanity is incapable, it’s worth remembering that only one country has ever used nuclear weapons in war; and that Russian ships turned back from Cuba rather than give the US a reason to start WWIII. We’ll have to hope that, as in the song by Sting, the Russians really do love their children too.

 

[Nimos]

Let's say Putin became unhinged and suicidal enough to use nukes as one last middle finger to his enemies. Could Russian generals refuse to comply with his order to launch nukes and instead perhaps depose or even execute him? I really hope they wouldn't simply obey such an insane order, but I don't know.

Would the chain of command really override generals' desire to live and not start a nuclear war?

I think it would be very difficult for them to do so.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I think it would be very difficult for them to do so.

Indeed, they would have to swim against the prevailing tide, and how many people have the moral courage to do that? Some, anyway.

 

[Nimos]

Do you think those generals love their families too?

There are some serious propaganda going on in Russia, read about some Russians living in Ukraine calling their families and trying to explain to them that they were in danger due to the Russian invasion and bombing, and the parents didn't believe them and stuck to what the Russian media were telling them, that they wouldn't do that and that they were there to liberate Ukraine.

If the parents won't even believe their own children, but rather the government then its really not good.

 

[Wandering Monk]

There are at least two instances where members of the Soviet armed forces averted nuclear war.

Vasily Arkhipov - Wikipedia

Stanislav Petrov - Wikipedia

 

[Nimos]

Indeed, they would have to swim against the prevailing tide, and how many people have the moral courage to do that? Some, anyway.

My point is more, that I think this idea of disobeying generals standing up to their leader, is something we see in Hollywood and makes for a good movie But I think the people trained to launching the nukes are specially trained to follow orders like this, its not the average recruit assigned to this task, at least that is my guess.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think he has been unhinged for years, but using nukes would be a whole other level of derangement.

I don't think he was at all unhinged prior to this war.
Unless "unhinged" would include valuing oppression
& empire building by violence. But his failure in
Ukraine could very well be unhinging, in that he's
personally invested, & pursuing a bad course because
he wants to save face at any cost. It's no longer a
calculation of what best advances his goals....it's all
emotional motivation (IMO).
This makes nuclear war look increasingly possible.

 

[Revoltingest]

There are at least two instances where members of the Soviet armed forces averted nuclear war.

Vasily Arkhipov - Wikipedia

Stanislav Petrov - Wikipedia

I've already proposed statues & a holiday here for Petrov.
I'd forgotten about Arkhipov. He deserves the honors too.

 

[Martin]

I’m holding on to the hope that, should Vlad the Invader order the use of the doomsday weapon, whoever was responsible for carrying out the order would refuse. And that the angels of their better nature would cause Putin’s generals to restrain their hand.

While history suggests there are no atrocities of which humanity is incapable, it’s worth remembering that only one country has ever used nuclear weapons in war; and that Russian ships turned back from Cuba rather than give the US a reason to start WWIII. We’ll have to hope that, as in the song by Sting, the Russians really do love their children too.

"Vlad the Invader". I like that. I call him "Putrid Putin", though that's partly because I like alliteration.

 

[Mock Turtle]

On friday russian forces shelled the biggest nuclear power station in europe. Just the slightest error and much of Europe and Wester Russia would have been rendered uninhabitable for many years, and caused loss of life in many thousands.

The guy who ok'd this attack has lost it in my opinion and the chain of command followed through. This, to me is the most frightening event of this war so far.

This has perhaps been hyped up, as is natural given the risks of damage to any of the reactors, but I doubt the Russians didn't know the difference between a nuclear plant area and any other building, even at night.

 

[England my lionheart]

Putin is ruthless like Stalin who had generals executed in the Red army purge,just a whiff of dissent and i guess the same would happen now,saying that i think there's always a chance that there could be a change in administration.

 

[ChristineM]

This has perhaps been hyped up, as is natural given the risks of damage to any of the reactors, but I doubt the Russians didn't know the difference between a nuclear plant area and any other building, even at night.

I am sure they do know the difference. However as Chernobyl demonstrates, accidents can very easily happen with devastating results.

It not a point that they didn't hit anything critical, my point is that they attached it with explosive weapons at all.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I am sure they do know the difference. However as Chernobyl demonstrates, accidents can very easily happen with devastating results.

It not a point that they didn't hit anything critical, my point is that they attached it with explosive weapons at all.

But if the building was far enough away? I still think, like many things, this is a hyped up example of war propaganda. Presumably the aim was to shut the electricity supply down and not actually damage the reactors. I doubt the Russians are that stupid.

 

[Revoltingest]

I am sure they do know the difference. However as Chernobyl demonstrates, accidents can very easily happen with devastating results.

It not a point that they didn't hit anything critical, my point is that they attached it with explosive weapons at all.

And Russian reactors have been notoriously short
on safety measures, eg, containment domes.

Note that Chernobyl's explosion appears to have
been to powerful to be contained by one.
https://www.rri.kyoto-u.ac.jp/NSRG/reports/kr79/kr79pdf/Malko1.pdf