Could Russian Generals Disobey an Order to Use Nukes?

[ChristineM]

But if the building was far enough away? I still think, like many things, this is a hyped up example of war propaganda. Presumably the aim was to shut the electricity supply down and not actually damage the reactors. I doubt the Russians are that stupid.

But if pigs could fly...

Yes we know what the aim was. But mistakes can happen.

Do you? In war many stupid things xan happen, particularly if you have a nut job shouting commands

 

[ChristineM]

And Russian reactors have been notoriously short
on safety measures, eg, containment domes.

Note that Chernobyl's explosion appears to have
been to powerful to be contained by one.
https://www.rri.kyoto-u.ac.jp/NSRG/reports/kr79/kr79pdf/Malko1.pdf

And a stray explosive munition could easily do similar damage

 

[Mock Turtle]

But if pigs could fly...

Yes we know what the aim was. But mistakes can happen.

Do you? In war many stupid things xan happen, particularly if you have a nut job shouting commands

You have seen a plan of where the reactors were and the building hit?

 

[ChristineM]

You have seen a plan of where the reactors were and the building hit?

Yes. Are you denying that accidents xan occure?

 

[Mock Turtle]

Yes. Are you denying that accidents xan occure?

Of course, but I doubt a miss is as good as a mile applies here. All depends upon their point of aiming, as to what was in the background, and likely to be hit, and what wasn't. For example, they may have been aiming entirely away from the reactors and just towards the building. So, no chance of hitting them. I don't know and neither do you.

 

[Revoltingest]

And a stray explosive munition could easily do similar damage

Many reactors have gone critical in peacetime
with trained operators. Let's add to this being
attacked by a foreign power. It would distracti
from their job, risk damaging controls, & actually
hitting a reactor.
These dangers should not be minimized. It's
highly irresponsible for Putin to attack a reactor.

But I suspect that Putin has observed that reactor
meltdowns & other failures are manageable, even
worst cases like Chernobyl. So they're tolerable
losses in the larger picture of acquiring Ukraine.

 

[ChristineM]

Many reactors have gone critical in peacetime
with trained operators. Let's add to this being
attacked by a foreign power. This would be a
distraction from their job, it would risk damaging
controls, & it would risk hitting a reactor.
These dangers should not be minimized. It's
highly irresponsible for Putin to attack a reactor.

But I suspect that Putin has observed that reactor
meltdowns & other failures are manageable, even
worst cases like Chernobyl. So they're tolerable
losses in the larger picture of acquiring Ukraine.

My fathers farm in the west if the uk was shut down by Chernobyl, a friends farm in cumbria was closed for 20 years. The economic cost to the uk alone is frightening

It is estimated that thousands have died as a direct result of the Chernobyl disaster.

I wouldn't call that tolerable

 

[Debater Slayer]

Many reactors have gone critical in peacetime
with trained operators. Let's add to this being
attacked by a foreign power. This would be a
distraction from their job, it would risk damaging
controls, & it would risk hitting a reactor.
These dangers should not be minimized. It's
highly irresponsible for Putin to attack a reactor.

But I suspect that Putin has observed that reactor
meltdowns & other failures are manageable, even
worst cases like Chernobyl. So they're tolerable
losses in the larger picture of acquiring Ukraine.

He's also almost 70. In the event of a radioactive leak, the worst effects to people outside the immediate vicinity of the reactor could well materialize long after he has died.

Such an irresponsibly selfish act isn't unusual from murderous dictators seeking to fulfill their own goals no matter the costs to others.

 

[Revoltingest]

I wouldn't call that tolerable

That's because you're not Putin.
I believe that he considers problems caused
in your & other countries to be acceptable.

 

[Martin]

But if the building was far enough away? I still think, like many things, this is a hyped up example of war propaganda. Presumably the aim was to shut the electricity supply down and not actually damage the reactors. I doubt the Russians are that stupid.

You'd have thought the local Russian commander would have been briefed about the location of the reactor, and the risks of bombarding it. It points to inefficiency, or more worryingly, a trigger-happy disregard for consequences.

 

[ChristineM]

That's because you're not Putin.
He believe that he considers problems caused
in your & other countries to be acceptable.

Good for him. Hopefully the wind will blow the other way

 

[Martin]

Good for him. Hopefully the wind will blow the other way

I doubt it would bother Putrid Putin much if a load of his citizens got irradiated.

 

[ChristineM]

I doubt it would bother Putrid Putin much if a load of his citizens got irradiated.

True.

 

[Revoltingest]

Good for him. Hopefully the wind will blow the other way

Ideally into a long term depression in Moscow.
Let them reap what they sow, eh.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Ideally into a long term depression in Moscow.
Let them reap what they sow, eh.

I feel very bad for average Russian people who just want to peacefully go on about their lives, though. They're now suffering because of Putin's dictatorial lust for power.

 

[Revoltingest]

I feel very bad for average Russian people who just want to peacefully go on about their lives, though. They're now suffering because of Putin's dictatorial lust for power.

I concur.
But I also see that it's their responsibility more than
any other people to thwart Putin's government.
And their suffering is more justified than what's
inflicted upon those whom Putin attacks. It might
also motivate them to change regimes.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I concur.
But I also see that it's their responsibility more than
any other people to thwart Putin's government.
And their suffering is more justified than what's
inflicted upon those whom Putin attacks. It might
also motivate them to change regimes.

I don't have as much confidence as you do in the ability of regular civilians to overthrow a violent military dictatorship even if they wanted or tried to.

Perhaps this is my Middle Eastern background coloring my perspective. I'm having flashbacks of Syria and Libya.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't have as much confidence as you do in the ability of regular civilians to overthrow a violent military dictatorship even if they wanted or tried to.

There are no guarantees in life but death & taxes.
Dissatisfaction with a leader only increases the
probability of grass roots regime change.

 

[Mock Turtle]

You'd have thought the local Russian commander would have been briefed about the location of the reactor, and the risks of bombarding it. It points to inefficiency, or more worryingly, a trigger-happy disregard for consequences.

I think even a lunatic Russian would understand a map of the place, and where not to aim:

Nuclear plant: How close was nuclear plant attack to catastrophe?

 

[Revoltingest]

I think even a lunatic Russian would understand a map of the place, and where not to aim:

Nuclear plant: How close was nuclear plant attack to catastrophe?

Bombs do not always land exactly where intended.
The target is awfully close to the reactors & nuclear
waste storage.