Could you be wrong?

[URAVIP2ME]

You can't explain the science of "the afterlife", you mean.
And that's true off course. Just like one can't explain the science of alien abduction and rainbow eating fairies.

To me No one can explain "the afterlife" because ' after life ' means being more alive after death than before death.
Thus, ' afterlife ' is Not a Bible teaching, but rather ' resurrection ' is.- Revelation 1:18
There is a BIG difference because the Bible teaches the dead are in a sleep-like state.
Such as: Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14.
Since neither alien abduction or fairies are Bible teachings then we would Not expect to find them in the Bible.
What we do find is what is recorded at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....
That ' future tense ' is used (going to be) because that future resurrection takes place during Jesus' 1,000-year reign over Earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Summed up with " Man says, God says".
or, "I believe Jesus".
Which of course is actually about personal
infallibility.

I am wondering what a person can find ' fallible ' about what Jesus taught.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Romans 6:23 speaks about the wages of sin is death. But it isn't about the cessation of blood circulation and breathing, it is a different kind of death.
Revelation 21:7-8 New International Version (NIV)
Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
If there is a second death, what then is the first one?

I find the ' second death ' is for wicked ones including sinner Satan - Revelation 21:8
Since Jesus destroys Satan according to Hebrews 2:14 B then ' second death ' is a fitting term for: destruction.
ALL the wicked will be ' destroyed forever ' as per Psalms 92:7. Satan is wicked.
The Bible's definition of the lake of fire is defined at Revelation 20:13-14.
Thus, the definition of the lake of fire is: second death.
In death there is No post-mortem penalty, No double jeopardy.- Ecclesiastes 9:5.
Adam's capital punishment was Not death plus anything else. Death (returning to dust) was the price sin pays.
Adam started from dust and ' returned ' to dust as per Genesis 3:19.
A person can Not ' return ' to a place he never was before.
Adam went from non-life, to life, and returned back to non-life.
No different kind of death for Adam but the actual death of Romans 6:23,7.
The dead know nothing but are in a sleep-like state - Psalms 115:17; John 11:11-14
We are told at 2 Peter 3:9 if we don't want to 'perish' ( be destroyed ) we need to repent.

 

[MJFlores]

I find the ' second death ' is for wicked ones including sinner Satan - Revelation 21:8

In death there is No post-mortem penalty, No double jeopardy.- Ecclesiastes 9:5.

Your 2 statements runs contrary to each other. If there is no post mortem penalty then why is there a second death.

Would a criminal destined to heaven after dying?

Isn't it true that all men have all sinned and not righteous?
Hence we are wicked and worthless?

Romans 3:9-13 New International Version (NIV)
What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”

Everybody dies, even an infant dies
When an infant dies does it mean it was payment for a sin [not yet committed]?
I would sincerely object - a baby dies because we are all destined to die
not for the payment of sins.

When a man sins, he dies - not the first death but the second death
But when a man sins but his sins are forgiven and covered then he receives the free gift which is eternal life

Romans 4:7 New International Version (NIV)
“Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

When a man sins, he dies - not the first death but the second death

What makes you say this?

Romans 5:12 reveals that sin came through one man, Adam. And sin results in death. That is the first death, that everyone eventually experiences.

You quoted Romans 6:7 (that's great), which tells us that there is no more penalty after death....death is the penalty.
Once paid, that's it. The dead go to the Grave / Sheol / Hades / Hell, from which there will be a Resurrection, even for the unrighteous.

But since these unrighteous have already paid (by their death) for their sins, how is it they 'enter judgment'? They are judged by what they do after they are brought back to life! It's a merciful arrangement from God.

If they don't want to make changes and live by God's easy-to-follow rules, like caring for others and controlling their - ahem - "centerpieces", then they will experience the second death.... No more resurrection; they will be gone forever, jailed in the chains of death, as it were.
When the Bible says "torment forever and ever", the Greek term is related to being jailed: jailors in ancient Greek were called tormentors.

Take care, my cousin.

 

[MJFlores]

What makes you say this?

Romans 5:12 reveals that sin came through one man, Adam. And sin results in death. That is the first death, that everyone eventually experiences.

You quoted Romans 6:7 (that's great), which tells us that there is no more penalty after death....death is the penalty.
Once paid, that's it. The dead go to the Grave / Sheol / Hades / Hell, from which there will be a Resurrection, even for the unrighteous.

But since these unrighteous have already paid (by their death) for their sins, how is it they 'enter judgment'? They are judged by what they do after they are brought back to life! It's a merciful arrangement from God.

If they don't want to make changes and live by God's easy-to-follow rules, like caring for others and controlling their - ahem - "centerpieces", then they will experience the second death.... No more resurrection; they will be gone forever, jailed in the chains of death, as it were.
When the Bible says "torment forever and ever", the Greek term is related to being jailed: jailors in ancient Greek were called tormentors.

Take care, my cousin.

You mean to say, that these serial killers who were executed paid for their sins at their deaths??

I believe when a man sins, he dies in the second death.
A man whose sins are forgiven, lives in eternal life.

 

[We Never Know]

What makes you say this?

Romans 5:12 reveals that sin came through one man, Adam. And sin results in death. That is the first death, that everyone eventually experiences.

You quoted Romans 6:7 (that's great), which tells us that there is no more penalty after death....death is the penalty.
Once paid, that's it. The dead go to the Grave / Sheol / Hades / Hell, from which there will be a Resurrection, even for the unrighteous.

But since these unrighteous have already paid (by their death) for their sins, how is it they 'enter judgment'? They are judged by what they do after they are brought back to life! It's a merciful arrangement from God.

If they don't want to make changes and live by God's easy-to-follow rules, like caring for others and controlling their - ahem - "centerpieces", then they will experience the second death.... No more resurrection; they will be gone forever, jailed in the chains of death, as it were.
When the Bible says "torment forever and ever", the Greek term is related to being jailed: jailors in ancient Greek were called tormentors.

Take care, my cousin.

So if a man sins by committing murder, gets sentenced to life in prison as punishment, then gets punished again when he dies.... Will that fall under the double jeopardy clause?

 

[MJFlores]

So if a man sins by committing murder, gets sentenced to life in prison as punishment, then gets punished again when he dies.... Will that fall under the double jeopardy clause?

I believe MAN's sentence is death [second death].
Regardless of whether you are Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Atheist, Agnostics and so forth.
It is the second death.

Revelation 21:8 New International Version (NIV)
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

A convict is in prison and then put to death because he has broken the laws of the land which requires capital punishment. But the laws of man is different from the laws of God.

ASV
But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

CSB
But the cowards, faithless, detestable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars—their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

CEB
But for the cowardly, the faithless, the vile, the murderers, those who commit sexual immorality, those who use drugs and cast spells, the idolaters and all liars—their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death.”

CJB
But as for the cowardly, the untrustworthy, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those involved with the occult and with drugs, idol-worshippers, and all liars — their destiny is the lake burning with fire and sulfur, the second death.”

CEV
But I will tell you what will happen to cowards and to everyone who is unfaithful or dirty-minded or who murders or is sexually immoral or uses witchcraft or worships idols or tells lies. They will be thrown into that lake of fire and burning sulfur. This is the second death.

But these will occur on Judgement Day.

So there is still time, if you are alive.

 

[JJ50]

So if a man sins by committing murder, gets sentenced to life in prison as punishment, then gets punished again when he dies.... Will that fall under the double jeopardy clause?

What about this scenario? A man is sentenced to life in prison for murder, but just before he dies he gets 'saved', and is welcomed into heaven by St Peter. A man who is an unbeliever dies and is consigned to hell, even though he has spent his life helping others and is regarded as a very good person by all who know him. Where is the justice in that?

 

[We Never Know]

I believe MAN's sentence is death [second death].
Regardless of whether you are Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Atheist, Agnostics and so forth.
It is the second death.

Revelation 21:8 New International Version (NIV)
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

View attachment 30352

A convict is in prison and then put to death because he has broken the laws of the land which requires capital punishment. But the laws of man is different from the laws of God.

ASV
But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

CSB
But the cowards, faithless, detestable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars—their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

CEB
But for the cowardly, the faithless, the vile, the murderers, those who commit sexual immorality, those who use drugs and cast spells, the idolaters and all liars—their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death.”

CJB
But as for the cowardly, the untrustworthy, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those involved with the occult and with drugs, idol-worshippers, and all liars — their destiny is the lake burning with fire and sulfur, the second death.”

CEV
But I will tell you what will happen to cowards and to everyone who is unfaithful or dirty-minded or who murders or is sexually immoral or uses witchcraft or worships idols or tells lies. They will be thrown into that lake of fire and burning sulfur. This is the second death.

View attachment 30353

But these will occur on Judgement Day.

So there is still time, if you are alive.

Death is a natural occuring process. It happens to every known living thing.
Question(s);
-according to the bible death only happens because of man's sin(eating the forbidden fruit). Why should every living thing have to die because of what man did?
-does every species have a heaven or just man, which happens to be the worst species on the planet?
-why is man special when he takes and destroy's more than he needs while the other species simply balance out the natural system.

 

[JJ50]

Death is a natural occuring process. It happens to every known living thing.
Question(s);
-according to the bible death only happens because of man's sin(eating the forbidden fruit). Why should every living thing have to die because of what man did?
-does every species have a heaven or just man, which happens to be the worst species on the planet?
-why is man special when he takes and destroy's more than he needs while the other species simply balance out the natural system.

There are many illogical statements in the Bible!

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There is a BIG difference because the Bible teaches the dead are in a sleep-like state.

Then the bible is wrong.
Death is nothing like a "sleep like" state.

Since neither alien abduction or fairies are Bible teachings then we would Not expect to find them in the Bible.

What we do find is what is recorded at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....
That ' future tense ' is used (going to be) because that future resurrection takes place during Jesus' 1,000-year reign over Earth.

That is, off course, unless Ragnarok happens first.

 

[MJFlores]

Death is a natural occuring process. It happens to every known living thing.
Question(s);
-according to the bible death only happens because of man's sin(eating the forbidden fruit). Why should every living thing have to die because of what man did?
-does every species have a heaven or just man, which happens to be the worst species on the planet?
-why is man special when he takes and destroy's more than he needs while the other species simply balance out the natural system.

I with you there. Death is a natural occurring process.
Even the Bible says this about death.

Hebrews 9:27 New International Version (NIV)
Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

-according to the bible death only happens because of man's sin(eating the forbidden fruit). Why should every living thing have to die because of what man did?

The Bible answers:
Romans 5:12 New International Version (NIV)
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

Sure Adam introduced death but death came to all people because we too sinned.


-does every species have a heaven or just man, which happens to be the worst species on the planet?

There are animals in the new earth and new heaven but I doubt that they followed God's commands to earn to be there. These animals will be created - from the Bible:

Isaiah 65:17-25 New International Version (NIV)
“See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind.
But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I will create,
for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.
I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more.

“Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach a hundred
will be considered accursed.
They will build houses and dwell in them;
they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
No longer will they build houses and others live in them,
or plant and others eat.
For as the days of a tree,
so will be the days of my people;
my chosen ones will long enjoy
the work of their hands.
They will not labor in vain,
nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune;
for they will be a people blessed by the Lord,
they and their descendants with them.
Before they call I will answer;
while they are still speaking I will hear.
The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox,
and dust will be the serpent’s food.
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,”
says the Lord.

-why is man special when he takes and destroys more than he needs while the other species simply balance out the natural system.

Man is special?
I believe this will happen ultimately even before man destroys himself

Zephaniah 1:2-3 New International Version (NIV)
“I will sweep away everything
from the face of the earth,”
declares the Lord.
“I will sweep away both man and beast;
I will sweep away the birds in the sky
and the fish in the sea—
and the idols that cause the wicked to stumble.”

“When I destroy all mankind
on the face of the earth,”
declares the Lord,

 

[JJ50]

Humans appear to be at the top of the heap, but are an animal species like any other, imo.

 

[Trailblazer]

There are many illogical statements in the Bible!

No, it is NOT the Bible that is the problem, it is the Christians’ interpretations of the Bible. THAT is what makes the Bible LOOK illogical and insane.

 

[Trailblazer]

Death is a natural occuring process. It happens to every known living thing.
Question(s);
-according to the bible death only happens because of man's sin(eating the forbidden fruit). Why should every living thing have to die because of what man did?

Well, this is one of the most ridiculous Christian beliefs, that we became mortal because Adam and Eve disobeyed God and ate apples from a tree. Humans were always mortal, before Adam and Eve, who were NOT the first man and woman on Earth.

The Christian doctrine of Original Sin is thus a false doctrine, a hoax, a way to justify our need for Jesus to die for our sins.

Humans are born good but we have two natures, a higher noble spiritual nature and a lower material selfish nature. We have free will so we can choose to act according to either one of those natures. When we act according to our lower material nature, we sin. That is how sin comes into the world. The way to eliminate sin is to choose to act according to our higher spiritual nature.

Obviously, Original Sin is not responsible for our sins, because if it was, and Jesus sacrificed Himself on the cross to remove our sins, there would be no more sin in the world, but we all know that sin still exists.

-does every species have a heaven or just man, which happens to be the worst species on the planet?
-why is man special when he takes and destroy's more than he needs while the other species simply balance out the natural system.

Nobody knows if animals have an afterlife like humans do, because that was not revealed in any scriptures. I think they continue to exist in some form, somewhere, but I cannot prove that. I will NOT be a happy camper in heaven if there are no animals there since my life revolves around animals more than around people.

 

[Muffled]

I am of the opinion that no god or afterlife exists, and that much of what is attributed to Jesus is exaggerated or untrue. However, I could be wrong in which case, I must ensure I take my suitcase of asbestos clothing with me to hell.

Are others, whether believers or unbelievers, ready to admit that it is possible their stance on matters of faith could be wrong?

I believe Jesus speaks through me and He knows the truth of all things.

I believe there will be nothing of substance in Hell. You can't take anything or anyone with you. There is nothing but fire. It could not get more boring unless your thinking is that you really are burning in fire then it is torment. I recommend ditching sin and going for eternal life. That has a much better outlook.

 

[Muffled]

Yes, I think it is entirely possible my beliefs are wrong

I'd say that I'm 95% sure they are true

The other 5% is me keeping an open mind

One must always have an open mind

I believe you should say on what you hitch your confidence.

 

[JJ50]

I believe Jesus speaks through me and He knows the truth of all things.

I believe there will be nothing of substance in Hell. You can't take anything or anyone with you. There is nothing but fire. It could not get more boring unless your thinking is that you really are burning in fire then it is torment. I recommend ditching sin and going for eternal life. That has a much better outlook.

You wish to believe all that to be true, but as there is no evidence to suggest it is, I will stick to the way I see it.

 

[Muffled]

I respect your opinion. But really it's that extra 5 percent that is always shocking in life. For example, my mom is a religious conservative. I never would have guessed that as a teenager, she was into occult. And many things I have "discovered" were a big shock. Such as that my grandfather was squirreling away money to support the secret kids of his sister who had a secret affair.

I believe teenagers tend to try out a lot of things. The occult just means hidden. God reveals hidden things to whom He wishes when He wishes and to the extent He wishes. Any attempt to consult a different source is apt to be dangerous. I read Tarot cards but my source is not the cards, just a tool. God is always my source. I have seen other try to use the cards without any success because they have no source at all except their own minds.

My wife was a case in opint on the dangers of the occult. She was using ouija board and got responses from a demon who went on to disturb her. That was because she was not spiritually oriented and did not realize that could happen.