Couldn't design it if you tried

[ecco]

In other words, you believe science only up to the point that it conflicts with your religious beliefs.

In that regard you are no different from Creationists. You just draw the line at a slightly different place.

There are no conflicts between science and my beliefs.

My spiritual beliefs are on issues science can not address.

Cannot address or does not address to your satisfaction?

Creationists don't believe science addresses issues like the existance of humans to their satisfaction.
You don't believe science addresses issues like consciousness, telepathy, et al to your satisfaction.
Again, the only difference is where the line is drawn.

 

[George-ananda]

Cannot address or does not address to your satisfaction?

Creationists don't believe science addresses issues like the existance of humans to their satisfaction.
You don't believe science addresses issues like consciousness, telepathy, et al to your satisfaction.
Again, the only difference is where the line is drawn.

How do you think science addresses telepathy for one? I hope it is not; there is no place for telepathy in our model so we will deny and stubbornly refuse any contrary evidence.

As for consciousness, origins of the universe and life; these are mysteries for all of us. Science can address but has not yet answered any of these.

 

[ecco]

Telepathy has been studied in controlled experiments. These controlled experiments have shown, repeatedly, that telepathy is fiction.

You brought up telepathy but didn't comment on your views.

Telepathy is proven by odds against chance experiments.

Let's see your evidence...

Are you aware of the claims of parapsychologists like Dean Radin and others that show psychic abilities can be considered scientifically proven.

Your evidence is the writings of "parapsychologists like Dean Radin"?

There is evidence from the writings of Samuel Birley Rowbotham that the earth is flat.
Do you accept that evidence?

There is evidence from the writings of Max Mason Hunter that ghosts exist and haunt buildings.
Do you accept that evidence?


You'll have to do better than present the writings of a parapsychologist. How about some real evidence?

Either you are underinformed or stubbornly trying to hold the materialist line from breaking.

Neither.

 

[George-ananda]

Let's see your evidence...

Your evidence is the writings of "parapsychologists like Dean Radin"?

There is evidence from the writings of Samuel Birley Rowbotham that the earth is flat.
Do you accept that evidence?

There is evidence from the writings of Max Mason Hunter that ghosts exist and haunt buildings.
Do you accept that evidence?


You'll have to do better than present the writings of a parapsychologist. How about some real evidence?





Neither.

Ahh, I see the attitude I am dealing with so there is no point in me continuing to discuss parapsychology.

As to your two examples:

No, I don't believe the world is flat
Yes, I believe ghosts can haunt locations

I actually consider all evidence and argumentation before forming my position.

 

[ecco]

ecco previously

Creationists don't believe science addresses issues like the existance of humans to their satisfaction.
You don't believe science addresses issues like consciousness, telepathy, et al to your satisfaction.
Again, the only difference is where the line is drawn.​

How do you think science addresses telepathy for one? I hope it is not; there is no place for telepathy in our model so we will deny and stubbornly refuse any contrary evidence.

Quite the contrary. There have been scientific inquiries into the subject of telepathy. There has been no evidence to show that telepathy works. There is substantial evidence that it does not.

The James Randi Institute had a long ongoing reward for $1,000,000 for anyone who could demonstrate anything paranormal (including telepathy) in a controlled experiment. No one was successful.

What is so sadly funny about this subject is that people continue to believe even after being shown it's all BS. Years ago Johnny Carson, an amateur magician as well as a renown talk show host, had spoon bender and psychic, Uri Geller on his show. Geller could not bend any spoons or do anything "paranormal" under the watchful eyes of Carson.

It's about 5 minutes followed by the full 25 minute clip.​

Yet, today, Geller is making a comeback and fooling people (for money) once again. People, like you, want to believe, so they do. In spite of the evidence to the contrary.

As for consciousness, origins of the universe and life; these are mysteries for all of us. Science can address but has not yet answered any of these.

Again, just like the Creationists, science doesn't know -yet-, therefore GodDidIt. Thor didn't make thunder, your god didn't make, control, whatever, consciosness. But, you want to believe, so you do.

 

[ecco]

Ahh, I see the attitude I am dealing with so there is no point in me continuing to discuss parapsychology.

My attitude is that I believe in science, not pseudo-science.

Your attitude is that you do believe in pseudo-science. The problem comes in when asked to show evidence for your beliefs, you could not. Your solution to the problem is to back out of the conversation. That's neither unusual nor surprising.

As to your two examples:

No, I don't believe the world is flat
Yes, I believe ghosts can haunt locations

I actually consider all evidence and argumentation before forming my position.

Did you consider all the evidence and argumentation for a flat earth? Did you consider the author I referenced to be reliable?

You can show no evidence for ghosts any more than you can show for any other pseudo-science. But that won't stop you from believing, will it.

 

[Audie]

My attitude is that I believe in science, not pseudo-science.

Your attitude is that you do believe in pseudo-science. The problem comes in when asked to show evidence for your beliefs, you could not. Your solution to the problem is to back out of the conversation. That's neither unusual nor surprising.


Did you consider all the evidence and argumentation for a flat earth? Did you consider the author I referenced to be reliable?

You can show no evidence for ghosts any more than you can show for any other pseudo-science. But that won't stop you from believing, will it.

Your friend seems unaware of the principle that the easiest
person to fool is oneself.

 

[ecco]

Your fried seems unaware of the principle that the easiest
person to fool is oneself.

Indeed. But then, he has a lot of help from people who make a lot of money writing books that that fuel the fires.

 

[Audie]

Indeed. But then, he has a lot of help from people who make a lot of money writing books that that fuel the fires.

It is a huge amount of work to educate ones self in the sciences.

How wonderful to leap frog all of that, now, and land out ahead!
Be privvy to arcane knowledge, grasp knowings them stodgy
old allopathic researchers cannot comprehend, because they,
yes, blindly ignore anecdotes and dont weigh the evidence!

They could have lept ahead but their anecdote- blind shoes
of lead clipped their wings!

Faustus did it. Frankenstein, the young rebel chemist, Elvis.
Even the Jurassic Park boys. They did it Lept decades ahead.

So too our hero of telepathy and whatever all woo woo.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Couldn't design it if you tried

Seems to me, regarding the origins of biological life and subsequent evolution, even the most micromanager of an intelligent designer couldn't possibly have designed the complexity we see today.

For example, how could this intelligent designer have choreographed the structure of the brain with its neural network? Or respiration with its lengthy process of converting ADP to ATP using the energy from glucose?

And what mechanism would this intelligent designer have used to "poke" at the molecules to coerce them to bend to his/her/its will? Pushing them with a metaphorical finger?

Interesting the DNA is triple interleaved with a different code every 3.
It's also dynamic with the epigenome.
These 3 dimensional molecular machines are not just a marvel but they build themselves
It's a marvel upon marvel made by a very creative God

 

[whirlingmerc]

Couldn't design it if you tried

Seems to me, regarding the origins of biological life and subsequent evolution, even the most micromanager of an intelligent designer couldn't possibly have designed the complexity we see today.

For example, how could this intelligent designer have choreographed the structure of the brain with its neural network? Or respiration with its lengthy process of converting ADP to ATP using the energy from glucose?

And what mechanism would this intelligent designer have used to "poke" at the molecules to coerce them to bend to his/her/its will? Pushing them with a metaphorical finger?

Interesting the DNA is triple interleaved with a different code every 3.
It's also dynamic with the epigenome.
Also amazing is the efficiency of DNA and its coding and evolution doesn't explain it since
the first coding scheme that came up would tend to take over and dominate... but our dan is coded like 1 in a zillion as far as efficiency.
These 3 dimensional molecular machines are not just a marvel but they build themselves
It's a marvel upon marvel made by a very creative God

 

[Audie]

Interesting the DNA is triple interleaved with a different code every 3.
It's also dynamic with the epigenome.
Also amazing is the efficiency of DNA and its coding and evolution doesn't explain it since
the first coding scheme that came up would tend to take over and dominate... but our dan is coded like 1 in a zillion as far as efficiency.
These 3 dimensional molecular machines are not just a marvel but they build themselves
It's a marvel upon marvel made by a very creative God

If he is so freakin" smart he could have used magic mini-legos instead
of that clumsy stuff that keeps making mistakes and giving us
things like downs syndrome.

 

[ecco]

These 3 dimensional molecular machines are not just a marvel but they build themselves
It's a marvel upon marvel made by a very creative God

If he is so freakin" smart he could have used magic mini-legos instead
of that clumsy stuff that keeps making mistakes and giving us
things like downs syndrome.

Not only things like Down Syndrome which happens during gestation.

There is also the problem of constant inaccurate cell reproduction throughout our lives and the resultant problems like hearing loss, poor eyesight, aneurysms, strokes, heart attacks, et al. Then let's not forget the marvelous design of the human body that leads to chronic back pain, knee pain, etc.


All the results of a marvelous design made by a very creative God.

 

[Tiberius]

Yes, but the "thing" you start with is an incredibly complex self-replicating biochemical organism inhabiting a rich biosphere. Once you have that, your scheme can work.

Why is it complicated when it first starts?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Couldn't design it if you tried

Seems to me, regarding the origins of biological life and subsequent evolution, even the most micromanager of an intelligent designer couldn't possibly have designed the complexity we see today.

For example, how could this intelligent designer have choreographed the structure of the brain with its neural network? Or respiration with its lengthy process of converting ADP to ATP using the energy from glucose?

And what mechanism would this intelligent designer have used to "poke" at the molecules to coerce them to bend to his/her/its will? Pushing them with a metaphorical finger?

How would a caveman grasp all the design stages of a smart phone?

What mechanism do the designers of internet servers, browsers, software and hardware use to coerce electrons in our computers to display these words?


What makes it all possible is ultimately will, desire, motive, purpose, powers of explanation that can only exist in a conscious mind, we know of no limits to this phenomena- and our understanding of it certainly is not one!

 

[Audie]

How would a caveman grasp all the design stages of a smart phone?

What mechanism do the designers of internet servers, browsers, software and hardware use to coerce electrons in our computers to display these words?


What makes it all possible is ultimately will, desire, motive, purpose, powers of explanation that can only exist in a conscious mind, we know of no limits to this phenomena- and our understanding of it certainly is not one!

Aside from a delivery of news of the well known,
what purpose are you serving with this?

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

How would a caveman grasp all the design stages of a smart phone?

What mechanism do the designers of internet servers, browsers, software and hardware use to coerce electrons in our computers to display these words?


What makes it all possible is ultimately will, desire, motive, purpose, powers of explanation that can only exist in a conscious mind, we know of no limits to this phenomena- and our understanding of it certainly is not one!

When smart phones start having offspring together, let us know. Until then, smartphones are not analogous to biology.