Couldn't have said it better myself...

[Brian2]

I've yet to see such evidence.

Isn't the fact that God continues to reach out for us even when we reject Him evidence of the goodness of God.

 

[Heyo]

Isn't the fact that God continues to reach out for us even when we reject Him evidence of the goodness of God.

Nope.
You claiming that god is reaching out is no evidence.
You showing that it does, would be evidence.

 

[Brian2]

Because it doesn't make any sense. As you've so aptly demonstrated.

It's something that applies to God's truth and justice and crossing the Ts and dotting the i s, and not just waving His hand and forgiving everyone when some don't want to repent or condemning everyone when some don't deserve that and when He wants to provide a way out for everyone.
The atonement is explained in various ways in the Bible and through history and some people don't get or at least always want a better explanation.

 

[Brian2]

Insisting people must accept they aren't good people, or else they just aren't good people.
Normally that's called low self esteem.

What I really said is that no person is perfectly good.
Jesus said that He did not come to save the righteous but sinners. Someone who is without sin has no need of a saviour.
Do you think that you have to believe you are without sin in order to have a good self esteem?
I would call it being unrealistic to say you are without sin and a wrong way to high self esteem to deny the fact of our sin.

 

[Brian2]

Nope.
You claiming that god is reaching out is no evidence.
You showing that it does, would be evidence.

I could point to those who have come to Jesus over the years and have changed lives because of that, or to testimonies of people who say just how they came to Jesus and what happened subsequently but it sounds like you want some sort of proof of God and proof that He is who has performed miracles in people's lives, as opposed to just me giving what I call evidence.

Nevertheless in the story of humanity in the Bible, God's continued trying to being humanity back to Him and to forgiveness and eternal life does show a caring God and sending Jesus to atone for sin shows His love for us.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I could point to those who have come to Jesus over the years and have changed lives because of that, or to testimonies of people who say just how they came to Jesus and what happened subsequently but it sounds like you want some sort of proof of God and proof that He is who has performed miracles in people's lives, as opposed to just me giving what I call evidence.

Nevertheless in the story of humanity in the Bible, God's continued trying to being humanity back to Him and to forgiveness and eternal life does show a caring God and sending Jesus to atone for sin shows His love for us.

Start here. You are neither right or wrong as with evidence. You just do it differently than a skeptic like me. So I also do it differently than you. So claim all you like about me. I still do it differently.

BTW I am general universal strong skeptic so right and wrong works differently than the other in effect scientific skeptics.

 

[Brian2]

Start here. You are neither right or wrong as with evidence. You just do it differently than a skeptic like me. So I also do it differently than you. So claim all you like about me. I still do it differently.

BTW I am general universal strong skeptic so right and wrong works differently than the other in effect scientific skeptics.

I can't see inside people's mind except through what they say and no doubt I carry baggage in my biases about what skeptics might think.
But I guess everyone sees things differently and thinks differently. It's amazing we can communicate at all, but we seem to, with some difficulty.
But really what you seem to be calling evidence is what is evidence through eyes of faith and a skeptic would no doubt just dismiss it. But it is from the Bible story and so is consistent with that.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I can't see inside people's mind except through what they say and no doubt I carry baggage in my biases about what skeptics might think.
But I guess everyone sees things differently and thinks differently. It's amazing we can communicate at all, but we seem to, with some difficulty.
But really what you seem to be calling evidence is what is evidence through eyes of faith and a skeptic would no doubt just dismiss it. But it is from the Bible story and so is consistent with that.

No, because I am a strong skeptic, I only have faith in the end. I don't know in any strong sense, as most skeptics claim. There are more than one kind of skeptic.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I can't see inside people's mind except through what they say and no doubt I carry baggage in my biases about what skeptics might think.
But I guess everyone sees things differently and thinks differently. It's amazing we can communicate at all, but we seem to, with some difficulty.
But really what you seem to be calling evidence is what is evidence through eyes of faith and a skeptic would no doubt just dismiss it. But it is from the Bible story and so is consistent with that.

The Bible is the claim it is not the evidence. Proper evidence has the ability to cut both ways. And there does not appear to be any for the major claims of the Bible.

 

[Brian2]

No, because I am a strong skeptic, I only have faith in the end. I don't know in any strong sense, as most skeptics claim. There are more than one kind of skeptic.

Yes there are more than one kind of skeptic and I know you are different than others.

 

[Heyo]

but it sounds like you want some sort of proof of God and proof that He is who has performed miracles in people's lives, as opposed to just me giving what I call evidence.

But I guess everyone sees things differently and thinks differently. It's amazing we can communicate at all, but we seem to, with some difficulty.

Yes, it is amazing but there is room to improve. E.g. learn English, or if you think you know English, use English when communicating with non Christians or at the very least indicate when you speak Christianese. In Christianese words sound like their English counterparts but have other, often opposite meaning.
Take "evidence". In science (and mostly in common parlance) it is an undisputed fact indicating the truth of a proposition. In Christianese it is a claim made by an apologist.
Christianese may be a great rhetoric tool to preach to the choir or the feeble minded but in a debate with a sceptic you will be called out or misunderstood. Just use English then.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What I really said is that no person is perfectly good.
Jesus said that He did not come to save the righteous but sinners. Someone who is without sin has no need of a saviour.
Do you think that you have to believe you are without sin in order to have a good self esteem?
I would call it being unrealistic to say you are without sin and a wrong way to high self esteem to deny the fact of our sin.

This is what you've been saying, and it is stating must accept they are bad, are guilty, and must not be let off the hook.

That humanists don't realise how bad they actually are?

Humanists have not realised yet how bad they are and that they need to repent.

That humanists don't realise how bad they actually are?

According to God we have things to repent of.

we all become guilty of things.

But if people don't believe in a creator then they would carry that guilt around

According to God we have things to repent of.

According to God we have things to repent of.

According to God we have things to repent of.

According to God we have things to repent of.

People have been immoral

God could not just let humanity off the hook for our deeds,

 

[PearlSeeker]

I could point to those who have come to Jesus over the years and have changed lives because of that, or to testimonies of people who say just how they came to Jesus and what happened subsequently

This is just evidence that a story changed people's lives. No evidence that the story itself is true. It can be a placebo effect.

Nevertheless in the story of humanity in the Bible, God's continued trying to being humanity back to Him and to forgiveness and eternal life does show a caring God and sending Jesus to atone for sin shows His love for us.

That's right - "in the story". Another story tells that this story is not correct because it was distorted by humans (inspired word of God) and God was so loving that he sent his angel to reveal the correct text (literally word of God) to a prophet. Do you believe in Quran?

 

[Wildswanderer]

We see it also in the "pro-life" bunch. They aren't "pro-life". In fact, with their drivel, they prefer untold suffering for unwanted children and mothers and all the misery that comes with that.

They'll happily force a 12-year old to carry a pregnancy to terms, for example. And they'll even call it a "good" thing. Their definition of "good" is really skewed. It's not actually connected to well-being at all.

Nonsense. We all know most abortion is about convenience... quit deceiving yourself.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You really can't think of any way to determine whether something is good or bad? Really?

Not if we are animals.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nonsense. We all know most abortion is about convenience... quit deceiving yourself.

Whatever. My best friend is still alive today, with a family of her own, because there were no barriers to her getting an abortion years ago during a medical crisis.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Not if we are animals.

It's not that hard. Darwin speculated it's why social animals evolved a sense of empathy.

 

[Wildswanderer]

It's not that hard. Darwin speculated it's why social animals evolved a sense of empathy.

What is why?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Whatever. My best friend is still alive today, with a family of her own, because there were no barriers to her getting an abortion years ago during a medical crisis.

And there still isn't. If a woman is going to die they have the option of taking the baby.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not if we are animals.

-Do you still think that you are a tree?