Count the stars.. So shall your offspring be.

[mindlight]

In Genesis 15:5

"Look up at the heavens and count the stars - if indeed you can count them..,So shall your offspring be."

There are apparently about 100 billion galaxies each with 100 billion stars.

Now there are about 15 million Jews in the world but of course the lost tribes aside from Judah may account for many more. If we add in the Christians who claim to be the adopted children of Abraham and even the Muslims who might trace a link through Ishmael ( or Isaac) then you might have a number of 3 billion. Even if I exaggerate this number even more to point at 1 billion people born a year who have some link to Abraham it would still take 100 years to fill one galaxy at one person per star. But there are 100 billion galaxies so it would take 10000 billion years to fulfill the promise.

So since I do not doubt Gods word what conclusion can I draw.

1) that God only meant visible stars ( about 3000) and so this was merely encouragement to old man who doubted he would have kids. BUT the if you can statement seems to imply God meant the actual total of stars.

2) that human civilisation will grow in time to embrace trillions of people and will therefore necessarily be a space faring civilisation that must migrate across the galaxies since the resources do not exist to sustain such population in our solar system alone.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

In Genesis 15:5

"Look up at the heavens and count the stars - if indeed you can count them..,So shall your offspring be."

There are apparently about 100 billion galaxies each with 100 billion stars.

Now there are about 15 million Jews in the world but of course the lost tribes aside from Judah may account for many more. If we add in the Christians who claim to be the adopted children of Abraham and even the Muslims who might trace a link through Ishmael ( or Isaac) then you might have a number of 3 billion. Even if I exaggerate this number even more to point at 1 billion people born a year who have some link to Abraham it would still take 100 years to fill one galaxy at one person per star. But there are 100 billion galaxies so it would take 10000 billion years to fulfill the promise.

So since I do not doubt Gods word what conclusion can I draw.

1) that God only meant visible stars ( about 3000) and so this was merely encouragement to old man who doubted he would have kids. BUT the if you can statement seems to imply God meant the actual total of stars.

2) that human civilisation will grow in time to embrace trillions of people and will therefore necessarily be a space faring civilisation that must migrate across the galaxies since the resources do not exist to sustain such population in our solar system alone.

How about option 3, that God was simply speaking figuratively in order to emphasise to Abraham he will have a large number of descendants... I see no obligation on God's part here to be literally speaking of the exact number of stars, the meaning is simply a 'countless' number of descendants, or the sands on the seashore is the other comparison He mentions, which still numbers in the trillions in a small sized beach.

 

[arthra]

1) that God only meant visible stars ( about 3000) and so this was merely encouragement to old man who doubted he would have kids. BUT the if you can statement seems to imply God meant the actual total of stars.
2) that human civilisation will grow in time to embrace trillions of people and will therefore necessarily be a space faring civilisation that must migrate across the galaxies since the resources do not exist to sustain such population in our solar system alone.

In a world where a male child as a descendent was most cherished God is reassuring Abraham of the fulfillment of one of His greatest desires..and in a way that is beyond the conception of most people at the time.

So God asks Abraham to count the stars... They were numerous and really beyond the ability to count.

The New International version has:

He took him outside and said, "Look up at the sky and count the stars--if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."

Note "...if indeed you can count them"

I'm also suggesting that the children of Abraham were through three wives... Hagar, Sarah and Kethurah.. that the Covenant applies here as well....
.

 

[mindlight]

In a world where a male child as a descendent was most cherished God is reassuring Abraham of the fulfillment of one of His greatest desires..and in a way that is beyond the conception of most people at the time.

So God asks Abraham to count the stars... They were numerous and really beyond the ability to count.

The New International version has:

He took him outside and said, "Look up at the sky and count the stars--if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."

Note "...if indeed you can count them"

I'm also suggesting that the children of Abraham were through three wives... Hagar, Sarah and Kethurah.. that the Covenant applies here as well....
.

Kethurah?

 

[mindlight]

How about option 3, that God was simply speaking figuratively in order to emphasise to Abraham he will have a large number of descendants... I see no obligation on God's part here to be literally speaking of the exact number of stars, the meaning is simply a 'countless' number of descendants, or the sands on the seashore is the other comparison He mentions, which still numbers in the trillions in a small sized beach.

I kind of like the idea of a spacefaring civilisation filling the galaxies but you are probably right.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

I kind of like the idea of a spacefaring civilisation filling the galaxies but you are probably right.

Haha, I like the idea too.

 

[arthra]

Kethurah?

Yes a wife of Abraham...in Genesis

25:1 Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.

25:2 And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.

25:3 And Jokshan begat Sheba, and Dedan. And the sons of Dedan were Asshurim, and Letushim, and Leummim.

25:4 And the sons of Midian; Ephah, and Epher, and Hanoch, and Abidah, and Eldaah. All these were the children of Keturah.

She is most often forgotten...

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keturah

 

[Parsimony]

These two verses use past-tense and present-tense to refer to the children of Israel as being as numerous as the stars in the sky:

Nehemiah 9:23 - You made their children as numerous as the stars in the sky, and you brought them into the land that you told their parents to enter and possess.

Deuteronomy 1:10 - The Lord your God has increased your numbers so that today you are as numerous as the stars in the sky.

So I'm definitely going with the metaphorical option.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

In Genesis 15:5
"Look up at the heavens and count the stars - if indeed you can count them..,So shall your offspring be."
There are apparently about 100 billion galaxies each with 100 billion stars.
Now there are about 15 million Jews in the world but of course the lost tribes aside from Judah may account for many more. If we add in the Christians who claim to be the adopted children of Abraham and even the Muslims who might trace a link through Ishmael ( or Isaac) then you might have a number of 3 billion. Even if I exaggerate this number even more to point at 1 billion people born a year who have some link to Abraham it would still take 100 years to fill one galaxy at one person per star. But there are 100 billion galaxies so it would take 10000 billion years to fulfill the promise.
So since I do not doubt Gods word what conclusion can I draw.
1) that God only meant visible stars ( about 3000) and so this was merely encouragement to old man who doubted he would have kids. BUT the if you can statement seems to imply God meant the actual total of stars.
2) that human civilisation will grow in time to embrace trillions of people and will therefore necessarily be a space faring civilisation that must migrate across the galaxies since the resources do not exist to sustain such population in our solar system alone.

We know according to Genesis 1:28 mankind was to fill or populate the earth, Not overfill or over populate earth. So, reproduction on earth was to come to a finish.
According to Revelation new scrolls or new books will be opened. So, under Christ's millennium-long day of governing over earth mankind will then know more of God's purpose.
Learn more of God's purpose for both heaven ( outer space ) and earth.

There was No electric light interference with the words of Genesis 22:17-18, so Abraham could visibly see thousands of stars* - Genesis 15:5;
Also, we can Not count the grains of sand on the seashore - Genesis 22:17 B so, Abraham could know of a googleplex of gains of sand - Genesis 32:12
Makes a nice riddle for us, and under Christ's 1,000-year rulership over earth we will learn more.