Countries banning of kosher meats are forcing "expulsion" of Jews

[IndigoChild5559]

The Islamic form of slaughtering animals or poultry, dhabiha, involves killing through a cut to the jugular vein, carotid artery and windpipe. Isn't that similar to kosher slaughtering?

Oh boy, you are asking someone who isn't a rabbi or shochet. I'm feeling very nervous. I looked up the following website before I ventured to answer you: The rules of Shechita for performing a proper cut during kosher slaughter It is an English translation of the rules for Shechita.

Best as I can answer? The vein and artery seem obvious, since the idea is to cause as instead death by bleeding as possible, and unconsciousness happens within seconds if done correctly.

The windpipe? I have to say I'm not sure. I can tell you that TEARING the esophagus or trachea renders the meat unkosher, and that having something like a small nick in the blade will cause tearing.

For a better answer, you'll have to go to someone who is actually qualified, which I'm obviously not.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Tradition may have something to do with it. They didn't have stun guns and as shepherds I think you can assume they protected their livestock and had some regard for them.

My grandfather raised cows, chickens and pigs and I think his attitude was probably the norm. He would never have wanted any animal to suffer .. and he didn't have a stun gun either.

I agree that both kosher and halal butchering try to be humane. People did the best that they could at the time. The important point is that now we can do better. We can be more humane now. Why is that something that is not embraced?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

If it's a term, I thought Google would at least pick it up. Nope, I did not even see even a wiki page on it. So, if you are trying to title me as antisemitic, at least say it outright, don't make up terms. Then say why this is the case. Assertions are a waste of time. What I am doing is saying how shocking the situation is. Jews have been one of the most persecuted people in history. In the most catastrophic tragedy for them, WW2, they suffered greatly. So, you'd think they'd know a thing or two about suffering and when confronted, they'd be more understanding if they themselves are the cause. The answer is nope. You tried to turn this into antisemitism, so you don't have to face the prospect that your ideology is causing unnecessary suffering.

oh for crying out loud.

I plugged into google "Jews blamed for own suffering." This came to the top of the list, numero uno.
On the Origins of Anti-Semitism and the Problem of Blaming the Victim on JSTOR

You want more? Google it for yourself.

You can slip in "jews blamed for krystalnacht" although you might get a lot of sites that are general krystalnacht sites. For example here is one that came up:
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/nazis-launch-kristallnacht
"In the aftermath of Kristallnacht, the Nazis blamed the Jews and fined them 1 billion marks (or $400 million in 1938 dollars) for vom Rath’s death. As repayment, the government seized Jewish property and kept insurance money owed to Jewish people."

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I agree that both kosher and halal butchering try to be humane. People did the best that they could at the time. The important point is that now we can do better. We can be more humane now. Why is that something that is not embraced?

What makes you think that a cow that is stunned is not feeling pain? I've been knocked on the head to where I have a hard time remembering what's going on. But what I do remember hurts a whole awful lot.

 

[charlie sc]

oh for crying out loud.

I plugged into google "Jews blamed for own suffering." This came to the top of the list, numero uno.
On the Origins of Anti-Semitism and the Problem of Blaming the Victim on JSTOR

You want more? Google it for yourself.

You can slip in "jews blamed for krystalnacht" although you might get a lot of sites that are general krystalnacht sites. For example here is one that came up:
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/nazis-launch-kristallnacht
"In the aftermath of Kristallnacht, the Nazis blamed the Jews and fined them 1 billion marks (or $400 million in 1938 dollars) for vom Rath’s death. As repayment, the government seized Jewish property and kept insurance money owed to Jewish people."

I love how quite a few people in this forum give links and that's it. They expect other people to magically know what's going on in their head. At least you gave some context for the second link.

Describe to me how you are the victim in THIS situation?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I love how quite a few people in this forum give links and that's it. They expect other people to magically know what's going on in their head. At least you gave some context for the second link.

Describe to me how you are the victim in THIS situation?

Don't obfuscate. Try the two links I gave you, and use the phrases I offered to google more. Stop expecting others to do your work for you. You said you could find nothing. I found stuff in like 10 seconds.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What makes you think that a cow that is stunned is not feeling pain? I've been knocked on the head to where I have a hard time remembering what's going on. But what I do remember hurts a whole awful lot.

The stunning of cattle is much stronger than your head owie. They are knocked out cold. Being dazed is nowhere near being knocked unconscious.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Don't obfuscate. Try the two links I gave you, and use the phrases I offered to google more. Stop expecting others to do your work for you. You said you could find nothing. I found stuff in like 10 seconds.

He made a reasonable demand. Merely finding a link is only the first step in your homework if you want to make a claim. One must be ready to support a claim with links and quotes if demanded.

 

[charlie sc]

Don't obfuscate. Try the two links I gave you, and use the phrases I offered to google more. Stop expecting others to do your work for you. You said you could find nothing. I found stuff in like 10 seconds.

Wow. The first link talks about blaming the victim. The second link says at the end, "In the aftermath of Kristallnacht, the Nazis blamed the Jews." There is no term in the links you gave called Jew blaming. So, when you say I'm Jew blaming, I don't know what you mean. Perhaps there's an undertone to another concept, like antisemitism, but that's not my problem. Be clear with what you're saying, so that I can respond in kind. It seems like you're throwing around made up terms to try defend yourself or avoid the issues altogether. I won't let this happen, because assertions have no place in any discourse above opinionated disagreements.

 

[Shiranui117]

If I'm honest, the Sikhi manner of slaughtering seems to be about as quick and relatively painless as you can get unless we want to just put a bullet to the animal's head. One massive swing from a big, ****-off sword, off goes the head, and that's all, folks.

 

[rosends]

thank you very much. would you be so kind to write me in hebrew the word hagbalto? thanks!

Stick with "the limited nature of man"
הטבע המוגבל של האדם

 

[sooda]

Wow. The first link talks about blaming the victim. The second link says at the end, "In the aftermath of Kristallnacht, the Nazis blamed the Jews." There is no term in the links you gave called Jew blaming. So, when you say I'm Jew blaming, I don't know what you mean. Perhaps there's an undertone to another concept, like antisemitism, but that's not my problem. Be clear with what you're saying, so that I can respond in kind. It seems like you're throwing around made up terms to try defend yourself or avoid the issues altogether. I won't let this happen, because assertions have no place in any discourse above opinionated disagreements.

Why did Hitler blame the Jews for Germany's problems
Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questionsblame_the_Jews_for_Germany's_problems
Hitler hated all Jews because Germany was poor and he needed someone to blame for the economic situation. The Jews of Europe had been persecuted for many centuries; as far back as the 1540s ...

 

[Subduction Zone]

If I'm honest, the Sikhi manner of slaughtering seems to be about as quick and relatively painless as you can get unless we want to just put a bullet to the animal's head. One massive swing from a big, ****-off sword, off goes the head, and that's all, folks.

That would work. Do they do that with cattle? I associate the Sikh religion with India and I do not think beef consumption is allowed very often there. Though I could be mistaken.

 

[charlie sc]

Why did Hitler blame the Jews for Germany's problems
Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questionsblame_the_Jews_for_Germany's_problems
Hitler hated all Jews because Germany was poor and he needed someone to blame for the economic situation. The Jews of Europe had been persecuted for many centuries; as far back as the 1540s ...

And what's this got to do with me? I see no term called, "Jew blaming." I am not Hitler, I'm not talking about conspiracy theories or The Great Depression or anything of the like.

 

[Ancient Soul]

You have obviously never seen a Halal or Kosher slaughter. Its quick as lightening.

LOL

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That would work. Do they do that with cattle? I associate the Sikh religion with India and I do not think beef consumption is allowed very often there. Though I could be mistaken.

They can eat meat besides beef.

 

[Ancient Soul]

And you can prove this how exactly?

Or are you claiming that you have personally experienced having your throat cut, and as you slowly bled to death all the while being terrified that you were dying?

It's funny how some people make false statements when they really have NO IDEA what they are talking about.

I might say the same of you. What make you think, since you have no idea, that it is wanton suffering that goes on and on when done properly?

Ha, nice try at AVOIDING what I posted to YOU.

The fact is that you have no idea what suffering the animal goes thru, yet you falsely claim that you do. Because unless you go thru the process of being likewise killed, you are really clueless and have no right to speak for the victims.

 

[Subduction Zone]

They can eat meat besides beef.

They would probable have a similar problem with goats and perhaps even lambs. For all of them death is not as painless as it could be and that is the point of the bans that various European governments have on those practices. Right now it appears that they can import such meat from other countries, but that has obvious drawbacks of being much more expensive and many followers will let economics rule their diet, and it is likely to be only a temporary fix for them. Eventually the importation of such meats will be banned as well. The clear solution is to simply add stunning to kosher and halal slaughter. I thought that I saw at least one case of halal butchering adding this since it does not affect the meat at all and logically should not violate their rules.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

He made a reasonable demand. Merely finding a link is only the first step in your homework if you want to make a claim. One must be ready to support a claim with links and quotes if demanded.

No, it was not a reasonable request. He wanted information on an extremely broad topic, for which there really is no specific writing. One has to read more broadly written works on anti-Semitism, in which Jew blaming is discussed.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Wow. The first link talks about blaming the victim. The second link says at the end, "In the aftermath of Kristallnacht, the Nazis blamed the Jews." There is no term in the links you gave called Jew blaming. So, when you say I'm Jew blaming, I don't know what you mean. Perhaps there's an undertone to another concept, like antisemitism, but that's not my problem. Be clear with what you're saying, so that I can respond in kind. It seems like you're throwing around made up terms to try defend yourself or avoid the issues altogether. I won't let this happen, because assertions have no place in any discourse above opinionated disagreements.

To learn about "Jew blaming" you must access sources about anti-Semitism, for which Jew blaming is a sub-category. You are not really going to find sites that deal solely with Jew blaming.