covenant breakers

[hindupridemn]

Does anyone know how many covenant breakers there are in the world now? The names of some covenant breakers? How do the teachings of the Orthodox Baha'i Faith, Baha'is Under the Provision of the Covenant, Baha'is Loyal to Jacques Soghomonian, differ from the true Baha'i World Faith? Are there any descendents of Baha'u'llah living who are NOT covenant breakers?

 

[arthra]

Thanks fo rthe great questions..

For Baha'is a "Covenant Breaker" is someone who does not recognize the authority of the Center of the Faith and this of course has changed over the years. Only the Center of the Cause can designate someone a "Covenant Breaker".... so today that center is the Universal House of Justice elected every five years by the representatives of Baha'i communities around the planet. In the past there were those who opposed Abdul-Baha or Shoghi Effendi.

There are relatively few Covenant Breakers.. I knew of one man about nine years ago who was desiganted as such.

Basically Baha'is are to leave the person alone and not interfere with them in any way.. There are some small groups scattered around and you may have seen some of these groups on the internet.. They are basically failed attempts to divide the Baha'is and set up their own leadership..

If you'd like more information you can read the following history on the subject:

Covenant, The, and Covenant-breaker

UHJ letter: c-breakers.and.remey.html

 

[BruceDLimber]

Hi!

There are very vew such individuals--perhaps a couple hundred at most. In fact, a fair number of these groups are already extinct (as you'll see if you examine the article about them on Wikipedia)!

Like it or not, the web and internet can make a tiny group seem far more loud and significant than is really warranted.

And in comparison, there are currently about seven million Baha'is!

Best regards,

Bruce

 

[hindupridemn]

seven million? This must be a conservative estimate. I have heard numbers larger than 10 million. there are 748,000 in the United States, which has the third largest Baha'i population, after India and Iran.

 

[arthra]

seven million? This must be a conservative estimate. I have heard numbers larger than 10 million. there are 748,000 in the United States, which has the third largest Baha'i population, after India and Iran.

I don't believe that's accuarte .. It's more luike 148,000 rather than 748,000 but I appreciate your vision maybe it will be prophetic..

According to The World Almanac and Book of Facts 2004:

The majority of Bahá'ís live in Asia (3.6 million), Africa (1.8 million), and Latin America (900,000). According to some estimates, the largest Bahá'í community in the world is in India, with 2.2 million Bahá'ís, next is Iran, with 350,000, and the US, with 150,000. Aside from these countries, numbers vary greatly. Currently, no country has a Bahá'í majority.[60]
​

 

[Mind_Zenith]

Just a point: according to one of the elders of the local community, the followers of Covenant-Breakers are not necessarily Covenant-Breakers. He said they have to be part of the World Baha'i Faith (the non-Covenant Breaker group centred in Haifa) first, and then become a follower, in order to be designated as Covenant-Breaking. (See here for a piece in Bahai-Library.com about this)

So it could be a less in actuality than originally thought.

As to beliefs, if you're still interested, PM me about it: I'm a little cautious about talking about these groups here; but I have researched them out of interest, so I'm versed on the beliefs of these groups.

Hope this helps!

 

[Thief]

So...
This faith has a prophet... a doctrine...an ordered method of worship?

In another thread, I had the impression that such a belief system placed the doctrine up front....and practitioners were moving toward a common, mindset.

I might ask...is it required to believe in a particular person? set above all others as the prime example or leader of the faith?

 

[arthra]

The issue of covenant breaking is really a rare event and not a major developement for most Bhaa'is..

It's talked about on the internet.. but then aren't a lot of things.

For Baha'is a Covennt Breaker is someone (once again) who discards the central spiritual authority in our Faith and sets up their own or adopts say someone else as an authority for themselves.. this can only be determined from someone declaring that they are an authority and seek to say recruit followers or divide the Baha'is..

It's quite rare these days. I think I read about a man about ten years ago who became involved and was a covenant breaker.. His wife went along with him on this..

Anyway the families of some of these people have often supported them and so that's why we do not associate with them .. They are left quite alone to do their own thing.

If they wish to rejoin the Faith they appeal to the House of Justice and a decision can be made to admit them back into the Faith.

- Art

 

[Thief]

So like many other religious practices, there is hierarchy...and consequence when your own rationale finds a point of conflict?

 

[arthra]

So like many other religious practices, there is hierarchy...and consequence when your own rationale finds a point of conflict?

It's not the same thing though "Thief" as simply having a different point of view for Baha'is.

We Baha'is acknowledge there can be many personal points of view.. and it's actually called independent investigation of reality or truth, a Baha'i principle.

When we declare and become Baha'is we acknowledge Baha'u'llah as the Lord of the Age and we also acknowledge Abdul-Baha as His Successor and the Institutions of our Faith.. by signing a declaration of our faith, this is a simple form of what a covenant is.

Someone who goes back on their acknowledgement is like someone who champions another and tries to organize against the order within the Faith and this could be termed a violation of the covenant they made when they first declared.

- Art

 

[Thief]

It's not the same thing though "Thief" as simply having a different point of view for Baha'is.

We Baha'is acknowledge there can be many personal points of view.. and it's actually called independent investigation of reality or truth, a Baha'i principle.

When we declare and become Baha'is we acknowledge Baha'u'llah as the Lord of the Age and we also acknowledge Abdul-Baha as His Successor and the Institutions of our Faith.. by signing a declaration of our faith, this is a simple form of what a covenant is.

Someone who goes back on their acknowledgement is like someone who champions another and tries to organize against the order within the Faith and this could be termed a violation of the covenant they made when they first declared.

- Art

A few days ago, I did ask....because I was seeing similarity in posting, as I do post.

But now I see a serious difference.
I do not call my fellow man into following.
I will not set a form or practice before him, and insist of it, save only this one thing...

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

No one ever needed anything else or anything more.

In this life, it is a practice that transcends all faith...all prophets.
Under this one thing, we are all brothers and fellow servants.

And this one thing is fair warning...
as it will be done unto you, as you did unto others.
The angels await your arrival...your fate is in your hands.

 

[arthra]

Thanks for your post "thief"..

Yes we are all brothers and sisters and we serve one another..and the teaching that Mankind is One is a primary teaching of the Baha'i Faith

If you have further questions please do feel free.

- Art

 

[PeruanoKiwi]

Here is a good resource regarding this topic I urge you all to not discuss these matter on public forum. http://covenantstudy.org/questions/what-is-covenant-breaking/

Whoso interpreteth what hath been sent down from heaven of Revelation, and altereth its evident meaning, he, verily, is of them that have perverted the Sublime Word of God, and is of the lost ones in the Lucid Book." -The KITAB-I-AQDAS

No proper picture of Shoghi Effendi’s life can be obtained without reference to the subject of Covenant-breaking. The principle of light and shadow, setting each other off, the one intensifying the other, is seen in nature and in history; the sun casts shadows; at the base of the lamp lies shadow; the brighter the light the darker the shadow; the evil in men calls to mind the good, and the greatness of the good underlines the evil. The entire life of the Guardian was plagued and blighted by the ambition, the folly, the jealousy and hatred of individuals who rose up against the Cause and against him as Head of the Cause and who thought they could either subvert the Faith entirely or discredit its Guardian and set themselves up as leaders of a rival faction and win the body of believers over to their own interpretation of the Teachings and the way in which they believed the Cause of God should be run. No one ever succeeded in doing these things, but a series of disaffected individuals never ceased to try. The ringleaders misled the fools, the excommunicated tried to pervert the faithful.
Ruhiyyih Khanum, The Priceless Pearl, p. 118

 

[Cosmos]

In truth, "Covenant-Breaking" is flaunted much too easily towards those who simply use Independent Investigation of the Truth (2nd Baha'i Principle) to question the authority of the current Haifa Universal House of Justice or the validity of the Institution of Guardianship. Before attacking Baha'is for accepting what is explicitly instructed by His Holiness Baha'u'llah and the Master, please read and meditate upon Kitab-i-Aqdas paragraph 32, Abdu'l-Baha's Last Will and Testament pgs. 13-14, and Shoghi Effendi's, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, pgs. 147-148, respectively. Therein lies the delineated outline of the Baha'i Administrative Order designed with an executive and legislative branch and the presidency functioning in the capacity of the Guardianship. Neither Baha'u'llah, His Son Abdu'l-Baha, or His grandson Shoghi Effendi ever envisioned our administration serving without the "twin pillars" of proper leadership!

Another fact that most Baha'is are not aware of is that His Imminence Shoghi Effendi had already originally created what he himself referred to as the "embryonic Universal House of Justice" on January 9, 1951, which was dismantled by Ruhiyyih Khanum and the conclave of the Hands of the Cause of God after his death. This information you can actually readily find on Wikipedia, which even admits Charles Mason Remey (as do other Baha'i scholars I've read, including the Haifa UHJ) was the serving President of the first International Baha'i Council (i.e. "embyronic Universal House of Justice" or IBC) now the International Baha'i Community serving under the United Nations. Point of fact is that there are more than "a couple hundred" worldwide, but thousands who are perplexed at Haifa's inability to satisfactorily explain who gave the Hands authority to declare Bida (to mean "innovation" or God has changed His will) and dismantle the original IBC!

Many of us actually participate in 'mainstream' sans-Guardian Baha'i communities, such as my fiance and myself. Our criticism is genuine and concerns the way Haifa and national Spiritual Assemblies under this leadership censor Baha'is with differing opinions or who question authority itself. We are not deceitful dissenters but conscientious opposers to a Headless Monster posing as the Universal House of Justice of Bahau'llah without a Guardian (active executive branch or presidency)!

It is not the Baha'is under Rites (i.e. orginizations) independent from Haifa or Charles Mason Remey who are Covenant Breakers. How and why is standing up for the Covenant of Baha'u'llah covenant-breaking? There is not a single Baha'i scholar or otherwise who can justify the bogus 1963 election of an international administrative body that did not meet the requirements of the Master (active executive branch, National Spiritual Assembly in every nation, creation of a Baha'i World Court). None of them were met during Shoghi Effendi's lifetime and this is why he created the IBC in 1951 to be activated with full authority upon his passing!

So, again, I ask any Baha'i who is aligned with the UHJ in Haifa--please explain rationally how the Hands possess authority to revoke the Institution of the Guardianship without permission from either Shoghi Effendi or Abdu'l-Baha? If Shoghi Effendi was truly meant to be the last Guardian of the Faith, then what is the explanation of his headstone epithat reading "FIRST GUARDIAN" anyone can observe to this day? Why the vehement denouncement of Remey who is in fact the architect for several of the Houses of Worship around the world and the ONLY Hand of the Cause of God to be nominated BY Shoghi Effendi as PRESIDENT of the IBC?

 

[Boethiah]

Even in the Baha'i Faith, there are disagreements that divide us. Neither side is innocent.

In my own opinion, whether or not there is a legitimate Guardian is irrelevant. The Faith has problems that need to be dealt with. Petty squabbling such as this get us no where.

I think it's detestable for UHJ to label people "covenant breakers". This is just another form of persecution and prejudice. The independent investigation of truth is one of the most important in the Baha'i Faith. Those who disagree are labelled as covenant breakers and Bahai's are told to shun them. Where is the love and justice in that? They simply hold a different opinion about something. These Bahai's still believe in the word of Baha'u'llah, the unity of religion, and the unity of mankind. Are all of the little details really that important? It's the little details that tear us apart. We, as human beings, seem to want to find differences in these places.

Sacred scripture is important, yes, but it isn't the foundation of our Faith! Our Faith is rooted in the belief that mankind and God are unified, and Baha'u'llah is the prophet of this age. We must stop interpreting the texts blindly and label. We should start having open dialogue about change, for what is in the best interest of the Baha'i community. Retreating into the sacred scripture is simply retreating into an impenetrable wall where the light of knowledge and free thinking cannot pass. Sacred scripture supplements our Faith. It does not define it.

Gay Bahai's are Bahai's too. Covenant Breaking Bahai's are Bahai's. More importantly, we are all human beings.