Creation and Evolution Compatible...Questions

[ArtieE]

I am no part of the world because Jesus taught us to have as little to do with it as possible.

And you wonder why the world is in the shape it is when people like you sit on your asses and just wait to be given a new one...

 

[ArtieE]

The only reason that man is exploring the universe looking for other planets is because he is already well on the way to ruining this one. He wants somewhere to escape to when it all goes pear shaped.

So do you. At least we are doing something, you just sit on your butt waiting for your god to provide a new one. Spoiled are you?

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is less religion than ever before today (our species). Religion is neither the problem nor the solution. The problem is poor understanding of science. The problem is failure to teach metaphysics and excessive specialization.

And this is where the belief in "evolution" arose.

Actually we know that evolution is correct. Knowledge is demonstrable. You really should learn what is and what is not evidence so that you would not keep making the mistake of thinking there is evidence for your unsupported beliefs. I am not the only one that has had to point out that you do not have any evidence for your claims.

 

[sayak83]

Not at all. In her next life she is bound to be an atheist if all her talk about balance pans out.

Ah. That's not how it works. If one's character is like that of a cactus, one would find oneself growing in a desert. If, however, one is a shade giving tree, one would find oneself part of a lush forest with water and greenery. That'd what balance is.

 

[AManCalledHorse]

Not exactly the same, but I was playing the soundtrack from "Dances With Wolves" this afternoon, which is also one of my favorites. But I admit I have a bias with three of my four grandparents being Me'tis, even though I didn't grow up in "the tradition of the elders".

Dances with Wolves is another great movie. You have good taste in movies. My all time favorite would have to be Last of the Mohicans. It seems I have watched that movie 100's of times and it never gets old.

 

[cladking]

The problem is failure to teach metaphysics and excessive specialization.

Actually we know that evolution is correct. Knowledge is demonstrable. You really should learn what is and what is not evidence so that you would not keep making the mistake of thinking there is evidence for your unsupported beliefs. I am not the only one that has had to point out that you do not have any evidence for your claims.

The problem with the ToE is not evidential. There is plenty of evidence.

The problem with the belief in evolution is that all of this evidence is open to interpretation.

Even this wouldn't be a "huge" problem except that the evidence is all being misinterpreted.

Change in species and all life is about individuals and all change in all life is always sudden. We can't see it because modern language gets in the way. We forget the meaning of metaphysics and "science". We see our beliefs preferentially to reality itself. We have become confused by the wishful thinking of 19th century scientists.

 

[cladking]

The problem is failure to teach metaphysics and excessive specialization.

And it is this specialization that is leading to a major crisis. As fewer individuals understand the interrelatedness of process, infrastructure, and nature we are dependent on the integrity of a fast shrinking pool of people who do understand.

This is a very similar problem that killed off homo sapiens and gave rise to us.

The difference is they had a fall back position (modern language) and we have no such alternative. So we march headlong to a culture where every action is prescribed and every alternative is prohibited. For each individual what isn't prescribed is proscribed. We become automatons serving the state, the machines, and the few.

I believe the only alternative is for the meek to realize the earth has always been theirs and theirs alone. From this alternatives can be invented.

 

[Deeje]

Oh really! God doesn't exist in a child's mind until put there by an inappropriate adult - one already so conditioned.

Neither does Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. How do kids react when they find out that their parents lied to them? How inappropriate is that? Atheists condition their children too.

I don't know about where you live, but I doubt such is taught in UK schools, and rather having an open mind is more important. Which is why I am so against religious indoctrination in schools - they just foster division - besides being delusional.

So you have no idea that anything you say about the education system is even true? Yet you speak so confidently about things you know nothing about.....any wonder you swallow evolution
What a pushover! And you speak about open minds!? Should minds be so open that your brains fall out?

I can't comment on the quality of education these days - being 55 years since I sampled any - but I doubt science is depicted such. Perhaps you just have an issue with your religious beliefs - drop them and look again.

Again...I will if you will. 55 years out of the loop and nothing much happens in over half a century....? Really, what ancient rock have you been living under?

Perhaps because it is the best available explanation, and religious belief - of which there are numerous - will rather cloud the picture somewhat - not to mention poisoning the well and clouding their judgment.

This is why parents need to step up to the plate. If they have differences of any description with what their kids are being taught in the education system, then they need to counter these at home. This is why I am in favour of home schooling. Not only because schools today are a jungle often with vicious 'predators', and dangerous influences, but because the teachers can push their own agendas on our kids without our knowledge or approval. The gay lobby being one of them.

Last time I looked we were still here - otherwise I wouldn't be writing this. Stop being so pessimistic! On the Beach was fiction after all!

The two World Wars were very real. The last one ended because only one side had nuclear weapons.....now they all have them. Their disarmament agreements are not worth the paper they are written on because human beings are human beings.....ego driven stupidity doesn't lead anywhere good when enemies are equally armed.

sheep led by donkeys

Funny, I was thinking the same thing about evolutionists.

But you have to admit there are an awful number of such prophesies that have just passed into history with not even a cloud darkening the skies

On the contrary, the prophesies recorded about the end times are spot on and we have seen many of them. (Matthew 24:3-14) People don't seem to realise that the law of cause and effect means that whatever happens has to have a cause. The events depicted in Jesus' prophesy had several causes, some of them natural, some of them due to man's activities. Just because they are foretold doesn't mean that God caused them.....he just foresaw them and told us what to look for.

There are only two events left to be fulfilled....the removal of false religion (which will occur when the political elements move to ban all religion)....and the final destruction of the old world system of satanically controlled rulership, to be replaced by the governmental arrangement of God.....the Kingdom to come. (Daniel 2:44)

This is what the Bible says will happen and it can't come soon enough from where I am standing.

Time will tell, especially when we're we're also warned that it might seem to delay.

God's prophet Habakkuk was told..."For the vision is yet for its appointed time, And it is rushing toward its end, and it will not lie.
Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it! For it will without fail come true. It will not be late!" (Habakkuk 2:3)

We shall see soon enough IMO.

 

[Deeje]

We now graduate scientists who don't know how science works or what results mean. Of course this has been a problem for 500 years but it's getting worse.

None so blind apparently.

There is a cause of this 'blindness' according to scripture. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)

There is less religion than ever before today (our species). Religion is neither the problem nor the solution. The problem is poor understanding of science.

Especially is this so in public schools. The standard of behavior among the young shows that they see themselves as nothing more than animals, excusing their animalistic behavior. There is no morality anymore...it has disappeared along with manners and good speech. Humanity is sinking further and further into a moral morass and godless evolution has contributed greatly to this situation IMO.

Science has taught kids NOT to think, but to just accept everything they are fed. This is no more obvious than when you ask college kids if they believe in evolution and get confident affirmations.....but ask them to give evidence for it and watch them squirm. They have never bothered to honestly check it out for themselves.
The power of suggestion is never more evident than in evolutionary musings.

"Religion" has never served anyone well because human beings like to do things their way. If one religion doesn't suit, you try another, and if that doesn't suit, you either abandon religion altogether or start your own.
There was no "religion" in Eden.

Any wonder the world is in such a mess! Disagreements over everything just cause endless division.

 

[cladking]

"Religion" has never served anyone well because human beings like to do things their way. If one religion doesn't suit, you try another, and if that doesn't suit, you either abandon religion altogether or start your own.
There was no "religion" in Eden.
Any wonder the world is in such a mess! Disagreements over everything just cause endless division.

I said religion is neither the problem nor the solution but I meant this only from the perspective of the human species; homo omnisciencis.

For many individuals religion may be the only solution. Some people simply function better with faith or some kind of rudder than they do without something tying them to a moral code. Some individuals function better using other sorts of belief systems or perspectives. I would never presume to say what's best for any individual.

Certainly the breakdown in society could be seen from some perspectives as a breakdown in religious beliefs; ie- many individuals who need religion have been indoctrinated away from it. "Science" is no substitute for religion. Those who try are merely substituting a souless and empty belief system for one that could bring one solace and guidance. Science is a tool to learn about ourselves and our place in the cosmos, it is not a code to live by and there are no laws of nature that govern our ability to be happy or find fulfillment. Obviously for many individuals religion is no alternative and for those who lack faith it is difficult to find much value in religion. How ironic that I've found so many interesting and potentially scientifically important passages in the Bible, Koran, etc.

I believe the breakdown is chiefly caused by the belief that people aren't responsible for their results or even their actions. They are only held responsible for their beliefs so even though the LA school board fails the vast majority of all their students and ruins countless lives they are held in high esteem when they find the time to go to war with the state of Arizona.

This is the mess this country and world are in.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Some people simply function better with faith or some kind of rudder than they do without something tying them to a moral code. Some individuals function better using other sorts of belief systems or perspectives. I would never presume to say what's best for any individual.

I agree, that's the way it is with many.

But, to me (and Deeje), religion should be about pleasing God and gaining His approval, not necessarily using it to please ourselves.
-- James 1:27

 

[Mock Turtle]

Neither does Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. How do kids react when they find out that their parents lied to them? How inappropriate is that? Atheists condition their children too.

Now Deeje, you can do better than this - hopefully - these little white lies are hardly in the same league as a religious belief concerning Heaven and Hell, Satan, an afterlife, etc., and you know it. Why do you have to drag things down to such ludicrous levels?

So you have no idea that anything you say about the education system is even true? Yet you speak so confidently about things you know nothing about.....any wonder you swallow evolution
What a pushover! And you speak about open minds!? Should minds be so open that your brains fall out?

I have sufficient 'faith' in our school system so as to believe they wouldn't force questionable beliefs onto children - and the ToE might just be a theory but the best one available, with plenty to back it up, so it will hardly be dismissed as nonsense, unlike any Creationist view which has very little evidence behind it. You are just talking in platitudes again here.

Again...I will if you will. 55 years out of the loop and nothing much happens in over half a century....? Really, what ancient rock have you been living under?

Obviously not the same one that shelters you since I have been following the scientific literature for much of this time to ensure I do keep up to date.

This is why parents need to step up to the plate. If they have differences of any description with what their kids are being taught in the education system, then they need to counter these at home. This is why I am in favour of home schooling. Not only because schools today are a jungle often with vicious 'predators', and dangerous influences, but because the teachers can push their own agendas on our kids without our knowledge or approval. The gay lobby being one of them.

Bigotry shining through there, Deeje!

The two World Wars were very real. The last one ended because only one side had nuclear weapons.....now they all have them. Their disarmament agreements are not worth the paper they are written on because human beings are human beings.....ego driven stupidity doesn't lead anywhere good when enemies are equally armed.

Get some factual information. WWII ended because we united against two rather nasty foes at the time - with Russia playing a large role. The two nuclear weapons against Japan might have shortened the war somewhat but by then Japan was on its way to being defeated. It is quite possible that the USA used the weapons as tests - to see the effects - when they didn't really need to do so.

The rest concerning prophecies is just tales written long ago by people who didn't know a twig from a branch!

 

[ArtieE]

This is what the Bible says will happen and it can't come soon enough from where I am standing.

Time will tell, especially when we're we're also warned that it might seem to delay.

God's prophet Habakkuk was told..."For the vision is yet for its appointed time, And it is rushing toward its end, and it will not lie.
Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it! For it will without fail come true. It will not be late!" (Habakkuk 2:3)

We shall see soon enough IMO.

JW's teach their children that it comes soon and to wait a little longer, and when nothing happens they teach their children to wait, and when nothing happens they teach their children to wait... for generations and generations... just search for failed prophecies of the JW.

 

[cladking]

JW's teach their children that it comes soon and to wait a little longer, and when nothing happens they teach their children to wait, and when nothing happens they teach their children to wait... for generations and generations... just search for failed prophecies of the JW.

The test of any belief system is what we call prediction and ancients called "prophesy".

Nobody has ever been able to predict the future because the future is determined by things that haven't happened yet. Science can't predict the next fossil found or the next species to arise either. One thing that's a safe bet though is that the next species will arise quickly.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The test of any belief system is what we call prediction and ancients called "prophesy".

Nobody has ever been able to predict the future because the future is determined by things that haven't happened yet. Science can't predict the next fossil found or the next species to arise either. One thing that's a safe bet though is that the next species will arise quickly.

It appears that you are unaware of Tiktaalik:

Tiktaalik - Wikipedia

The researchers chose an area where the time was right and the environment was right so that one could expect to find a transitional species that helped fill in the knowledge of how vertebrates left the sea.

Far better than any biblical prophesy.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

JW's teach their children that it comes soon and to wait a little longer, and when nothing happens they teach their children to wait, and when nothing happens they teach their children to wait... for generations and generations... just search for failed prophecies of the JW.

Telling children (and others) to "wait" for the end, are not 'failed prophecies'!
The Last Days in Noah's time lasted 120 years (Genesis 6:3)....but it came, per Jesus' words. (Matthew 24:37-39) Keeping a waiting attitude, is also per Jesus' word. (Matthew 24:42-44)

To not keep awake, is the problem.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Telling children (and others) to "wait" for the end, are not 'failed prophecies'!
The Last Days in Noah's time lasted 120 years (Genesis 6:3)....but it came, per Jesus' words. (Matthew 24:37-39) Keeping a waiting attitude, is also per Jesus' word. (Matthew 24:42-44)

To not keep awake, is the problem.

If you base a prophecy on a myth you pretty much refute it. Perhaps your interpretation is incorrect. Since Jesus spoke in allegories and used other literary tools one should not take verses based upon fictitious events literally.

There are many different interpretations of Jesus's word. Ones that are literal tend to fail.

 

[AManCalledHorse]

If you base a prophecy on a myth you pretty much refute it. Perhaps your interpretation is incorrect. Since Jesus spoke in allegories and used other literary tools one should not take verses based upon fictitious events literally.

There are many different interpretations of Jesus's word. Ones that are literal tend to fail.

NOMB but what kind of work you do and what degrees do you possess? You seem to think you know the bible better than others, know science better than others, can debate better than others, in general you think you are above most on every thing. Thanks in advance .

 

[Subduction Zone]

NOMB but what kind of work you do and what degrees do you possess? You seem to think you know the bible better than others, know science better than others, can debate better than others, in general you think you are above most on every thing. Thanks in advance .

I know science better than many, definitely better than creationists. It does not take very much knowledge to understand that the Noah's Ark story is a myth. Many Christians, if not most, know that too. It does not stop them from being Christians. But yes, I can debate better than most because I can support the claims that I make. When others make bogus claims that they cannot support it does irritate me a bit.

I used to be a Christian and still have some fondness for the religion. Unfortunately literalitsts want to transform the religion into a combination of beliefs in myths and quite often hate of certain groups. Ironically they are the first to claim that others are not "True Christians".

 

[AManCalledHorse]

Telling children (and others) to "wait" for the end, are not 'failed prophecies'!
The Last Days in Noah's time lasted 120 years (Genesis 6:3)....but it came, per Jesus' words. (Matthew 24:37-39) Keeping a waiting attitude, is also per Jesus' word. (Matthew 24:42-44)

To not keep awake, is the problem.

Can you list the prophecies in the bible that you believe have came true. In asking for the chapter and verse and what happened after that that makes you believe that prophecy came true. Thanks in advance.