Creation Myths

[JakofHearts]

Good stuff dude.
What do you make of it?
Where did it come from?
I am thinking this kind of thing must be generated from an internal experience.

Much like many ancient peoples, ancient China had stories that were orally passed down through the ages from their ancestors. They become traditional and are recited through songs or spoken from an elder, embedding itself into the culture and written language.

 

[allfoak]

Thanks for the info.
Unique.
good stuff.
i wish we could get some others here to post what they know about other cultures.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Which, according to the religions who claim it as their own, say it is indeed a literal account of creation.
Is this not true?

Which? Genesis? Some claim it as literal, others recognize it as being symbolic or even simply a poetic description. The same seems to be true with other cultures' stories of the origin of the world and the peoples in it.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

What seems basic to the myths of all cultures is the intrinsic belief in the existence of a wholly Other.

citations, please? And definition of what you mean by a "wholly Other?"

While this is probably true of some cultures, I sincerely doubt that it can be said of ALL...but that will likely depend on what you mean by a 'wholly other.'

 

[allfoak]

Which? Genesis? Some claim it as literal, others recognize it as being symbolic or even simply a poetic description. The same seems to be true with other cultures' stories of the origin of the world and the peoples in it.

I stand corrected.

 

[Native]

Why do so many cultures past and present around the world have a creation myth?
These myths were how people understood the world they lived in.
Were they just primitive story tellers or do these myths still hold significance for us today?

We all live on the same planet Earth, in the same Solar System, in the same Milky Way galaxy and in the same part of the observable Universe.

This IS the Story of Creation and this is percieved in many cultures all over the World, regardless of any migrational contacts. If studying the numerous cultural Stories of Creation, via Comparative Mythology and Religion, we can find this almost similar telling.

These myths are not mumbo jumbo and ancient hearsayings but they contains real cosmological knowledge if we can connect the texts to the correct celestial and cosmological object and motion.

To a certain extend, these ancient tellings even can improve on the modern scientific cosmological theories, mostly because of the cyclical world perception instead of the modern linear ideas.

It is my opinion that ancient Stories of Creation don´t deal with the creation of the entire Universe, but specifically with the ancient known part of the Universe, namely our Milky Way and everything in it, including our Solar System.

Read more here - Ancient Science. The Ancient and native Way of Knowledge

 

[Robert Vincelette]

A myth is not intended to be a physical description or even to be an attempt to make a physical description of how the universe formed. It is something much deeper than that. It is a truth so deep that it cannot be expressed by any literal description of something as superficial as physical reality. It attempts to transcend the limits of human language by taking recourse to symbols and deals with things that are too vast for our limited understanding. Make them into fundamentalism and you destroy all their power.

 

[Willamena]

Which, according to the religions who claim it as their own, say it is indeed a literal account of creation.
Is this not true?

Rather, they probably say it's a true account.

 

[capumetu]

Partly because humans have a desire to learn and explain things. And fact is we all came from the same source, therefore beginnings would always have some similarities no matter where you live in the world.

Interestingly most civilizations have a global flood in their heritage

 

[Windwalker]

China is the oldest and most enduring civilization in history. Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucianism came about in 400 to 500 BC in China

Buddhism did not come about in China. The Buddha was born and lived in Nepal. It was born out of Hinduism. Taoism goes back to around 2500 BCE with Yellow Emperor.

yet China is much older going back 2,500 BC; and before Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucianism there was another belief --- a belief in one God.

That wasn't a monotheistic belief. There were other gods worshipped alongside of Shangdi. It wasn't until the 5th century BCE that the other gods were reinterpreted as helpers to Shangdi, like the angels in Abrahamic religion. Thank you Google .

In the ancient Chinese writing which are known as pictographs similar to the ancient Egyptians it uses symbols to represent it's meaning. And these meanings are strikingly similar to the Genesis creation account, the flood, and the tower of Babel.

Except from what I'm reading here this isn't true: Chinese creation myth - Wikipedia

"the above Chinese cosmogonic myths about the world and humans originating spontaneously without a creator (e.g., from "refined vital energy" in the Huainanzi), two later origin myths for humans involve divinities."
​

Yeah, some myths have an element of truth to them and some do not. This creation myth just happens to be recorded by two peoples worlds apart.

They are not the same stories, even though they may carry common human archetypal themes. In no way does that translate into them pointing to some common recollection of a factual historical event. You also seem unaware of how stories get spread and shared culturally.

 

[Fool]

Why do so many cultures past and present around the world have a creation myth?
These myths were how people understood the world they lived in.
Were they just primitive story tellers or do these myths still hold significance for us today?

i believe they are relevant in the time and space that they were created. like your idea of experience; which reminds me of the parable of the blind sages and the elephant.

 

[pearl]

'[/QUOTE]While this is probably true of some cultures, I sincerely doubt that it can be said of ALL...but that will likely depend on what you mean by a 'wholly other.'[/QUOTE]

Would you not agree that the Mystery, aka God, is wholly, totally, and completely OTHER?

The creation story as related in the Biblical Book of Genesis, for example, where a great god speaks existence into creation is quite similar to creation stories from ancient Sumeria, Egypt, Phoenicia and even China. The story of the Great Flood can be found in the mythology of virtually every culture on earth. The figure of the Dying and Reviving God (a deity who dies for the good of, or to redeem the sins of, his people, goes down into the earth, and rises again to life) can be traced back to ancient Sumeria in the Epic of Gilgamesh, to the Egyptian myth of Osiris, the Greek stories of Dionysus, of Adonis, and of Persephone, the Phoenician Baal, and the Hindu Krishna (among many others) down to the most famous of these figures, Jesus Christ.
Mythology

It is impossible to understand religion without the concept of myth, and especially Christian religion. Its stories are the vehicles of truth. It is unimportant whether or not the details of the story actually happened, i.e.; whether the faimily of the prodigal son existed, or the encounter with the Samaritan woman actually took place as described. The 'truth' conveyed by the myth is the meaning of love. Without the 'story' of resurrection, no Christian religion. Christianity is not harmed by admitting that our 'truths' are burried in mystery.

 

[Willamena]

Would you not agree that the Mystery, aka God, is wholly, totally, and completely OTHER?

Understanding the other is easy. The mystery is the way in which it is not-other.

 

[pearl]

Love those elephant stories, here's another one;
'The elephant and the rat'
An elephant was enjoying a leisurely dip in a jungle pool when a rat came up to the pool and insisted that the elephant get out. "I won't' said the elephant. 'I insist you get out this minute', said the rat.
'Why?' 'I shall tell you that only after you are out of the pool.'
'Then I won't get out'. But he finally lumbered out of the pool, stood in front of the rat, and said, "Now then, why did you want me to get out of the pool?"
"To check if you were wearing my swimming trunks", said the rat.

An elephant will sooner fit into the trunks of a rat than God will fit into our notions of him. deMello

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Would you not agree that the Mystery, aka God, is wholly, totally, and completely OTHER?

No.

In the first place, I don't see Mystery = God.

Second, I certainly do not see Mystery = God in the sense of the Abrahamic omnimax deity.

Third, I see in many indigenous mythologies a presence of Mystery, but I do not see any evidence that Mystery = God = an omnimax deity that is the same as or equivalent to the Abrahamic versions in those indigenous mythologies.

It is only Westerners, heavily influence by Monotheistic Christianity and Judaism, and by the material monist theories of the Enlightenment and "Science" that impose the terms myth and creation and God on these other cultural stories.

Yes, one must understand "myth." But what is myth? Myths are the stories told within a society or culture, that tell members Who they Are, Where they Came From, Who they are related to, What they should be doing, and how they should do it, and so on. A single story can do many of those things, within just a few sentences.

It is an error to conclude that just because across cultures we can see similarities in that most have stories about someone who "starts" the creation of the world, that they are talking about the Abrahamic omnimax God--which is the assumption of many western anthropologists, sociologists, scholars of comparative religion, and so on.

 

[allfoak]

Rather, they probably say it's a true account.

Yes.
Much better!

 

[pearl]

Yes, one must understand "myth." But what is myth? Myths are the stories told within a society or culture, that tell members Who they Are, Where they Came From, Who they are related to, What they should be doing, and how they should do it, and so on.

That is a perfect description, purpose of the Genesis myth.

It is an error to conclude that just because across cultures we can see similarities in that most have stories about someone who "starts" the creation of the world, that they are talking about the Abrahamic omnimax God--

I never stated these myths had evolved to the understanding of one
universal God. That did no happen until Sinai.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

That is a perfect description, purpose of the Genesis myth.



I never stated these myths had evolved to the understanding of one
universal God. That did no happen until Sinai.

And it doesn't apply to other cultures: my point was that Western intellectuals, in both the Monotheistic and Atheistic strains, have for at least 150 years tried to force the mythology of indigenous and other non-Abrahamic-followers into categories based on the Monotheistic religions, and many (especially the Christians who are trying to convert the masses) still do today. I have read many documents by and for missionaries that lay out how the myths of other cultures are wrong, how they have been distorted from the true original myth...you know, the one found in Genesis...

 

[JakofHearts]

Buddhism did not come about in China. The Buddha was born and lived in Nepal. It was born out of Hinduism. Taoism goes back to around 2500 BCE with Yellow Emperor.


That wasn't a monotheistic belief. There were other gods worshipped alongside of Shangdi. It wasn't until the 5th century BCE that the other gods were reinterpreted as helpers to Shangdi, like the angels in Abrahamic religion. Thank you Google .


Except from what I'm reading here this isn't true: Chinese creation myth - Wikipedia

"the above Chinese cosmogonic myths about the world and humans originating spontaneously without a creator (e.g., from "refined vital energy" in the Huainanzi), two later origin myths for humans involve divinities."
​

They are not the same stories, even though they may carry common human archetypal themes. In no way does that translate into them pointing to some common recollection of a factual historical event. You also seem unaware of how stories get spread and shared culturally.

Technically you are correct on the origin of Buddhism. The Chinese popularised it and it endured with them as it slowly dissipated with the Indians. Taoism is said to have originated with it's founder Lao-tzu, but there are claims that it goes back to the Yellow Emperor, though that claim lacks any strong points, unless you can provide reasons why you think so. Regardless, China is much older and had another belief which I'm pointing out.

Everything else I'll have to disagree with. Shangdi literally means the supreme being, or the most high, and even in it's writing's it is represented as the highest of the high. Even in Christianity, there are "gods", but there is only one God, Shangdi.

Here we have a creation story and we have details that have not gone unnoticed. The word "create" for example, you'd think that to create something you create something with your hands, but the word "create" is shown to be the creation of man from dust, or to speak something into existence.

When it comes to ancient China, I find their writings to be profound and curious.

 

[dianaiad]

Myth is condescending. It claims the account is untrue.

No. At least, not to those to whom "myth" is actually the jargon of their professions...LIKE anthropologists, etc.,

Now the 'regular guy" might equate 'myth' with 'fanciful tale,' in the same way that I might be 'unique,' you are 'eccentric' and 'he is crazier than a bedbug," but in reality, all our creation stories are myths, true or not.

Creation stories explain the cultural mores, how "people came to be,' and "the way we ought to live." They all have some moral point.

In THAT sense, I think all mythology is true. Don't know that any creation myths are FACT, even (or perhaps especially) my own, but True? yep.

This isn't a 'western' thing. It is true for all cultures; creation stories explain how people came to be and how they ought to live, and almost all of 'em have moral lessons...even if it is 'This is how the gods did this, and wasn't that stupid? Don't be like that."

One thing I am sure of is this: all creation mythology is valuable and worth reading/listening to. They all have lessons to teach. Now I find that the science behind the formation of the Grand Canyon is fascinating. I love learning how the world really works...scientifically.

But having Pecos Bill carve it out by riding a tornado across the west is a heck of a lot more fun.