Creation of Genes

[The Sum of Awe]

If our world didn't have a medium for sound to pass through, or at least a medium too thin for sound to be heard by any sort of ears, would the mutation(s) that gave us ears/hearing still have come by, just being rendered useless?

I'm not asking if we'd have them today, I'm not asking about natural selection keeping them. I'm asking if the genes for ear structure and hearing would occur at all, ever.

If not, wouldn't this mean something 'guides' mutation? Why would mutations only occur when they actually have use in nature? It'd seem as if mutations knew whether or not they'd be of any use in reality. Why would whatever caused mutations relating to our sense of hearing cease to cause these mutations if there was no medium that'd allow sound waves to reach our ears?

 

[shawn001]

But we do have an atmosphere "medium for sound to pass through," and hence the mutations. Evolution and nature guides mutations.

 

[psychoslice]

Of course we wouldn't have ears, there are fish that have been living underground caves that have never seen light, they have no eye's, its all the beauty of evolution.

 

[DawudTalut]

If our world didn't have a medium for sound to pass through, or at least a medium too thin for sound to be heard by any sort of ears, would the mutation(s) that gave us ears/hearing still have come by, just being rendered useless?

I'm not asking if we'd have them today, I'm not asking about natural selection keeping them. I'm asking if the genes for ear structure and hearing would occur at all, ever.

If not, wouldn't this mean something 'guides' mutation? Why would mutations only occur when they actually have use in nature? It'd seem as if mutations knew whether or not they'd be of any use in reality. Why would whatever caused mutations relating to our sense of hearing cease to cause these mutations if there was no medium that'd allow sound waves to reach our ears?

Peace be on you....There are things surely Guided-by-The-Guided; guided-creation and guided-evolution:

"" ....We have briefly outlined the shape and the functions of parts of the ear. This description could be further elaborated with reference to the cells and tissues which constitute the parts and their internal complexities. Whatever we have described is quite sufficient to prove the point that the outer ear is an organ which defies all evolutionary theory for its gradual sequenced construction, slowly and bit by bit. Each part of this organ is essential for hearing, which if diseased, can either damage or render it completely out of order. We invite the attention of all who depend entirely on Darwinian principles as causative and commanding factors of evolution and request them to explain how such a perfect artifact of science and technology could have been created step by step in a billion or even a trillion years under the influence of the said principles. Can scientists, with all their advanced knowledge of the mechanisms of life, physics or advanced chemistry, design even the structure of this organ to make hearing possible? Now that they know the complexities of the hollowed temporal bone through which this labyrinth passes, can they copy and reconstruct it with a suitable material which they have synthesized themselves? Could they honestly believe that such a wonder could have ever been created without a purpose and without a functional design, precise to its minutest detail, merely under the mindless influence of natural selection? The greater the time span taken by the blind forces of nature to create such a wonder as the human ear, the more impossible it becomes to organize, bit by bit, its constituent parts into a meaningful sequence. There has to be a conscious operator with perfect knowledge of natural laws which could be pressed into service to create a human ear.

UT the outer organ we have discussed is not the only problem blind evolutionists will have to face and resolve. Now let us return to the nerve cords which transmit the pulses received by the ear. The making of these nerves in itself is an impossible task without there consciously being a design......."
Source:Organic Systems and Evolution
..

 

[shawn001]

We can trace the evolution of the ear and hearing and it doesn't need a concious designer.


Human Ears Evolved from Ancient Fish Gills

Human Ears Evolved from Ancient Fish Gills

 

[shawn001]

"blind evolutionists"

LOL

 

[LuisDantas]

If our world didn't have a medium for sound to pass through, or at least a medium too thin for sound to be heard by any sort of ears,

That is a mighty strong deviation from our world.

would the mutation(s) that gave us ears/hearing still have come by, just being rendered useless?

I don't know. Would life be possible in such a world to begin with? That is just not clear to me.

I'm not asking if we'd have them today, I'm not asking about natural selection keeping them. I'm asking if the genes for ear structure and hearing would occur at all, ever.

Assuming that something resembling vertebrates would still exist in such a world, then yes, probably. But your premise is that they would be useless and therefore not advantageous, so natural selection would not favor them.

If not, wouldn't this mean something 'guides' mutation?

Mutations are not guided, at least not far as anyone can tell. But they are known to be selected. Not at all the same thing, but maybe you meant selection instead of guidance?

Why would mutations only occur when they actually have use in nature?

They do not. They are however only selected when they are advantageous, of course.

It'd seem as if mutations knew whether or not they'd be of any use in reality.

I don't think so. Most mutations are if anything indicative of randomness.

Why would whatever caused mutations relating to our sense of hearing cease to cause these mutations if there was no medium that'd allow sound waves to reach our ears?

Natural selection.

Actually, let me correct that. If those mutations were at all possible, they would probably happen still. But they would be far rarer, because their occurrences would not be favored by natural selection.

 

[Skwim]

If our world didn't have a medium for sound to pass through, or at least a medium too thin for sound to be heard by any sort of ears, would the mutation(s) that gave us ears/hearing still have come by, just being rendered useless?

I'm not asking if we'd have them today, I'm not asking about natural selection keeping them. I'm asking if the genes for ear structure and hearing would occur at all, ever.

If not, wouldn't this mean something 'guides' mutation? Why would mutations only occur when they actually have use in nature? It'd seem as if mutations knew whether or not they'd be of any use in reality. Why would whatever caused mutations relating to our sense of hearing cease to cause these mutations if there was no medium that'd allow sound waves to reach our ears?

Keep in mind that many, many mutations take place, and only those that prove advantageous to an organism are replicated (retained) because they offer a survival advantage. The others fall by the wayside as so much wasted "effort."

 

[shawn001]

Life on other planets if there is, could be somewhat similar to us or really different because of their environments they would have evolved in. More gravity and you have different legs for example.

Evolution has also produced many different variations on ears and hearing.

 

[psychoslice]

Life on other planets if there is, could be somewhat similar to us or really different because of their environments they would have evolved in. More gravity and you have different legs for example.

Evolution has also produced many different variations on ears and hearing.

Yes who knows, we with our limited knowledge of the cosmos, would have a clue what is happening out there, its anyone's guess.

 

[shawn001]

There could be all kinds, but Carbon is best suited and then maybe silicon and a few others. But the environments themselves gravity, atmosphere, temperatures all would effect the planets evolution.

Just FYI

The Hunt for Alien Intelligence is Going Infrared

The Hunt for Alien Intelligence is Going Infrared : Discovery News

 

[FearGod]

If our world didn't have a medium for sound to pass through, or at least a medium too thin for sound to be heard by any sort of ears, would the mutation(s) that gave us ears/hearing still have come by, just being rendered useless?

I'm not asking if we'd have them today, I'm not asking about natural selection keeping them. I'm asking if the genes for ear structure and hearing would occur at all, ever.

If not, wouldn't this mean something 'guides' mutation? Why would mutations only occur when they actually have use in nature? It'd seem as if mutations knew whether or not they'd be of any use in reality. Why would whatever caused mutations relating to our sense of hearing cease to cause these mutations if there was no medium that'd allow sound waves to reach our ears?

Yes of course it's a well designed, it isn't only a mike, it isn't only a speaker but it's a complete system that work in harmony.

Speakers are useless if we don't have power source, receiving circuits, amplifying circuits and the speaker itself should convert the electric current to vibration (mechanical energy), the mike should also convert sound waves to electric current.

Nothing can work without plan and design, by knowledge and science we can create a useful machine.

The human body is even much more complex, then how that can be done without a scientific procedure by an intelligent designer.

 

[Iti oj]

No genes for ears would not evolve if we lived in a soundless.environment
Edit.the gened for our ears are more then one mutation and the op does not demonstrate design

 

[Iti oj]

Ears are more then one mutation.with a medium for sound to travel then natural selection would never favor those mutations. Since then basic mutations never happened the more "advanced" mutations would never happen. No complex ears.


This is all very simple and basic.

 

[dust1n]

I don't think so. Most mutations are if anything indicative of randomness.

It's really not so much random, as being interrelated with so many things on such large scales. Like stirring a cup of coffee. We know enough to talk about it in rough, probabilistic terms.

 

[shawn001]

Yes of course it's a well designed, it isn't only a mike, it isn't only a speaker but it's a complete system that work in harmony.

Speakers are useless if we don't have power source, receiving circuits, amplifying circuits and the speaker itself should convert the electric current to vibration (mechanical energy), the mike should also convert sound waves to electric current.

Nothing can work without plan and design, by knowledge and science we can create a useful machine.

The human body is even much more complex, then how that can be done without a scientific procedure by an intelligent designer.

Funny as we are working on making the "design" better. Was something not design better in the first place?

 

[dust1n]

If our world didn't have a medium for sound to pass through, or at least a medium too thin for sound to be heard by any sort of ears, would the mutation(s) that gave us ears/hearing still have come by, just being rendered useless?

I'm not asking if we'd have them today, I'm not asking about natural selection keeping them. I'm asking if the genes for ear structure and hearing would occur at all, ever.

If there was no medium for sound to travel through, there would be no evolution of ears, because their would benefit to hearing (like hearing a predator coming, or a piece of food scamper by). Although, since sound is just a feature of compression waves through matter, I'm not sure how you could have any sort of living thing where there would be no sound.

If not, wouldn't this mean something 'guides' mutation? Why would mutations only occur when they actually have use in nature? It'd seem as if mutations knew whether or not they'd be of any use in reality. Why would whatever caused mutations relating to our sense of hearing cease to cause these mutations if there was no medium that'd allow sound waves to reach our ears?

Think about it like this:

Say I have 1,000,000 ancient fishes. None of them have any method of "hearing sound." They have a noisy predator who has no problem eating them because they are no capable of hearing the predator coming.

Now, imagine, that one of those fishes has a slight mutation that allows to hear, even the slightest bump, or process it, then it will have an increased chance of survival. Let's say, survival for this particular fish is twice as likely as the others, and thus reproduction is twice as likely.

So, 999,999 fishes can't hear, 1 can.

So, if 32% reproduce sexually, and have three kids, and the one with ears is twice as effective as survival, and lives this first generation, then you then have 3 new fish with ears.

999,999*3*32%= 959999

1*3*64%= 1.92

If you kept doing this every generation, the number 1.92 fishes with ears will eventually surpass 959999.

This is what it means when "evolution is the change of allele frequencies in a given population."

Hope that helps.