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Creation of Universe according to Bible & Quran
- Thread starter Ali Ansari
- Start date
Ali Ansari
Member
Tiberius said:
Well how can I assure you that Mountains does stabilize the earth? I Have given you the reference now it is upon you that you believe it or not.
yes he knows every thing, but the test is for us. If we fail we will go to hell & if we pass we will go to heaven.
You are saying that Quran is contradicting with itself.
Now look at this from the 99 attributes of Allah the first two are Rahmaan & Raheem means Most Gracious & Most Merciful
there are two types of sins
1 is Ghunah e Qabeera = big Sins like rape, murder, associate partners with God etc
2 is Ghunah e Sagheera = small sins like telling a lie, cheating some one etc
Now if any one is doing small sins Allah may forgive them even when they don’t seek forgiveness.
And if some one has done Ghunah e Qabeera (big sin) then he has to seek forgiveness other wise he will never be forgiven.
So where is the contradiction.
Ali Ansari
Member
Yes of courseMister_T said:
1. Shape of the earth
“seest thou not that Allah merges night into day
and he merges day into night” (Al Quran 31:29)
merging here means that night slowly and gradually changes to day and vice versa. This phenomenon can only take place if the earth is spherical. If the earth was flat there would have sudden change from night to day and from day to night.
“and the earth, moreover hath he made egg shaped” (Al Quran 79:30)
The Arabic word ‘Dahaha’ comes from root word ‘Duhya’, meaning an Egg-shape and it does not refer to any normal Egg. It specifically refers to the Egg of an Ostrich - and today we know that the world is not completely round like a ball- It is Geo Spherical. It is slightly flattened from the top and bulging from the centre - It is Geo Spherical. And if you analyze the shape of the Egg of an Ostrich - it too is Geo Spherical, slightly flattened from the top and bulging from the centre. So the Holy Qur'an describes the exact ‘geo spherical earth’ 1400 years ago.
2.In the field of Biology,
the Holy Qur'an says in Surah Al Anbiya, Ch. No. 21, Verse No. 30
‘We have created every living thing from water - Will you not then believe?’ Imagine in the deserts of Arabia, where there was scarcity of water, the Qur'an says… ‘Every thing was created from water’ - who would have believed in it? Anything else the Qur'an would have said people could have believed. ‘Water’ - where there was scarcity - the Qur'an says 1400 years ago…
‘Every living thing is created from water’.
Today we have come to know, that Cytoplasm which is the basic substance of the living cell contains 80% water. Every living creature contains 50 to 70% water, and without water, the living creature cannot survive - It is a must. Qur'an asks you
‘We have created from water every living thing - Will you not then believe?’ Allah is saying… ‘that everything is created from water’ - which you came to know today. Qur'an mentions that 1400 years ago… ‘Will you not then believe?’ It is asking you a question - It wants a reply.
Well these two are the examples of many scientific facts mentioned in Quran.
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
Ali Ansari said:
Unfortunately I am not sure if i will be able to find that book at my local library. In any case, I seek to understand how the mountains stabilise the earth's crust, and I'm also curious about why there are many places on earth that have no mountains and yet are still stabile. And does this work only with mountains formed through tectonic activity, or would it work where there are mountains formed from erosion as well?
No, the test is for him. he's using it to determine which people to accept into heaven, yes? HE is using it. Not us.
Well, then, i have to ask why Allah would allow his words to be so muddied like that.
The ostrich egg is shaped like a football (like gridiron or Aussie rules, not a soccer ball). That is a completely different shape. it has been pulled apart at the top and bottom, not flattened.
if the earth was really like that, it would look like this:
Doesn't look like any globe of the world I've ever seen.
Gee Zee
Member
Ali Ansari said:
You make a great point Ali. It is sad that many people jump to assumptions regarding the Qur'an. I studied it a little for research purposes when writing my latest book, Bleedthrough, and was surprised to see how interwined the Muslim and Christian faith really is. I'm not Muslim or Christian but I guess that's why I see it more clearly. And of course Muslims do NOT worship Mahammed (pbuh) in the way Christians worship Christ. Another eye-opener. :sleep:
Green Kepi
Active Member
Ali...I realize that I cannot and will never be able to change your mind concerning your faith...that's not my reason for writing this; however, if you will let me, I'd like to explain why my discussions with those of your like faith never gets beyond the point of going around and around in circles.
Here is my "biggest" reason for not believing in Islam: My Bible in Galatians 1:8 - tells me that if an angel from Heaven should preach a gospel other than that one the Apostles taught, he is to be eternally condemned (the original wordage is, "let him go to hell". Well...(correct me if I am wrong), did not Mohammed claim to have received differential visions from the angel, Gabriel? Not only does this apply to Mohammed, Joseph Smith (Mormons) said another angel gave him visions. Okay...even if they did...I'm taught not to believe them.
Here is my "biggest" reason for not believing in Islam: My Bible in Galatians 1:8 - tells me that if an angel from Heaven should preach a gospel other than that one the Apostles taught, he is to be eternally condemned (the original wordage is, "let him go to hell". Well...(correct me if I am wrong), did not Mohammed claim to have received differential visions from the angel, Gabriel? Not only does this apply to Mohammed, Joseph Smith (Mormons) said another angel gave him visions. Okay...even if they did...I'm taught not to believe them.
Ali Ansari
Member
Sorry for the late reply
[quote Tiberius]I seek to understand how the mountains stabilise the earth's crust, and I'm also curious about why there are many places on earth that have no mountains and yet are still stabile. And does this work only with mountains formed through tectonic activity, or would it work where there are mountains formed from erosion as well? [/quote]
Yes you should do research on this topic.
Because some one said that little knowledge about science makes you an atheist, but deep knowledge about it will make a believer.
If any thing is not explained in the Quran fully. Then it is explained in the Hadith(the sayings of the prophet).
Like Quran says Pray. Now question arises how we should pray? Which time we should pray?
So these things are explained in Hadith.
[quote Tiberius]I seek to understand how the mountains stabilise the earth's crust, and I'm also curious about why there are many places on earth that have no mountains and yet are still stabile. And does this work only with mountains formed through tectonic activity, or would it work where there are mountains formed from erosion as well? [/quote]
Yes you should do research on this topic.
Because some one said that little knowledge about science makes you an atheist, but deep knowledge about it will make a believer.
no the Quran’s words are not muddied, every thing in the Quran is explained.
If any thing is not explained in the Quran fully. Then it is explained in the Hadith(the sayings of the prophet).
Like Quran says Pray. Now question arises how we should pray? Which time we should pray?
So these things are explained in Hadith.
rotate the image 90 degree and don’t consider the shadow as the part egg. It will look like earth.
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
I believe the Bible is 100% scientificaly accurate, it contains many exact proven scientific statements, and that the Creation Story and Noah's Flood fits with what i see on the earth. The Bible says on the first day the earth was without form and void, but it still WAS. I believe God set the earth in motion at some point, and when He said let there be light, that it was not the sun, for it was not yet made. God called the light day, and the dark night, and the morning and the evening were the first day. This set up a 24 hour day, then after each day of creation, it says, "and the morning and the evening were the 2nd, 3rd, etc. day. He did not make the sun, moon, and stars til the 4th day, perhaps so people would not worship the sun as many have, thinking all things came from it.
I also see that the Bible says that Abraham was going to offer Isaac, not Ishmael, the Dead Sea Scrolls confirming this as these are older than the oldest Old Testament copies we had from @ 11th century, and the Scrolls were from close to Christ's time. Older than our oldest OT copies and the Koran, and it still has Isaac as the son who was offered.
Also, I see in the Bible, that Christ came and died, and said He came to die IN ORDER THAT THE SCRIPTURE (Old Testament) BE FULFILLED. The Bible says Jesus DIED for our sins, and rose the 3rd day. The Koran denies this. Now, I ask, whom do you believe? The eyewitnesses of the crucifixion, or someone who comes 600 years later and says, no, Christ did not die. I think eyewitnesses are a much stronger case.
Well, I do not wish to cause any bad feelings, I only wanted to tell my beliefs, too. When I was younger, I did not believe the creation story literaly. But, now, from examining the science of it, its WAY easier to believe than the hogwash of evolution. Now that takes some faith to believe that. Well, best wishes to all.
I also see that the Bible says that Abraham was going to offer Isaac, not Ishmael, the Dead Sea Scrolls confirming this as these are older than the oldest Old Testament copies we had from @ 11th century, and the Scrolls were from close to Christ's time. Older than our oldest OT copies and the Koran, and it still has Isaac as the son who was offered.
Also, I see in the Bible, that Christ came and died, and said He came to die IN ORDER THAT THE SCRIPTURE (Old Testament) BE FULFILLED. The Bible says Jesus DIED for our sins, and rose the 3rd day. The Koran denies this. Now, I ask, whom do you believe? The eyewitnesses of the crucifixion, or someone who comes 600 years later and says, no, Christ did not die. I think eyewitnesses are a much stronger case.
Well, I do not wish to cause any bad feelings, I only wanted to tell my beliefs, too. When I was younger, I did not believe the creation story literaly. But, now, from examining the science of it, its WAY easier to believe than the hogwash of evolution. Now that takes some faith to believe that. Well, best wishes to all.
Booko
Deviled Hen
Ali Ansari said:
Hi Ali, I just popped in to mention that this is incorrect. The Baha'i Faith has belief in Jesus as an article of faith as well.
It is also an article of faith for Baha'is to believe that Muhammad (pbuh) was a Messenger and the Qu'ran is true and from God, though we are not Muslims.
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
Ali Ansari said:
That is not what the Earth would look like. The earth has an axis of rotation that passes through the North and South poles. If we were to position ourselves above it we would see everything rotating about that axis in a circle. yet if we do this with an ostrich egg, we do not seethe same thing.
The shape of the Earth is more like that of an M&M. Squashed in one dimension - top and bottom have been pushed together.
An ostrich egg has been squashed in two dimensions if we do as you say. From top to bottom and from front to back.
An ostrich egg is NOT the same basic shape as the earth!
Defij
Member
This might have already been stated, and I apologize if I'm repeating stuff already stated, but I'd like to state that, as a Christian, I do not necessarily take the whole "Seven Days of Creation" story literally. First of all, there are two separate accounts of creation in Genesis. Us Biblical scholars refer to them as the J (or Yahwahistic)account in Genesis chapter 2 and the P (or the priestly) account in Genesis Chapter 1. These are two separate accounts of creation. I won't get into all the differences, but I will say this. They both serve their purposes, and I wouldn't want the Bible to get rid of either. Are they literal factual scientific accounts of how the world was actually formed? I doubt it. Does that mean it is some how less important or not valid and uninspired by God?! Of course not! It is up to God to inspire whatever "literary genre" He wants! It is not up to us to TELL God what genre to inspire, which is what we (as Christians) have done by trying to make everything "literal". It is up to us, as rational thinking and critical scholars to determine what literary genre God inspired, and in the case of Genesis 1 and 2, it's very plausible that it's not literal, but in fact poetic to show us the Imminence of God and the Omnipotence of God.
It all boils down to this: Science answers the "how" questions; religion and philosophy answer the "who" questions.
It all boils down to this: Science answers the "how" questions; religion and philosophy answer the "who" questions.
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
Well, that is a different debate, I would just say, there are not 2 different creation stories, it is written twice as was the style, but it is the same creation. God specifically sets up each day as a 24 hour day:
The First Book of Moses: Called Genesis
1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Now the "2nd" part of the story...its the same story, recapped to give the details of the creation of man, and a verse or 2 later, woman:
2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
(King James Bible, Genesis)
Note here that it HAD NOT RAINED, before the creation of ADAM, it was a SHORT time. Note that everything was VERY GOOD, that the beasts had the herb of the field for meat, THERE WAS NO DEATH, no millions of years of 'survival of the fittest', sin had not entered, so neither had death.
Now, let me say this, Jesus mentions Adam and Eve, they were REAL PEOPLE. But here is the big thing, Paul says in Romans 5 that by ADAM's sin, death came upon all men. Now he repeats this SEVERAL times, to show that by ONE MAN, ADAM, sin and death came upon ALL MEN, and by ONE MAN, JESUS, came righteousness. If one does not believe in what the Bible says in Genesis, they may as well not believe Romans. And vice-versa.
Genesis sets up the creation days as 24 hour literal days, and Adam as a real, literal man from whom we all descended. Jesus being the Creator, and the Saviour of the world. I would say too, that science is more in agreement with the stories of the creation and the great flood, then for the tom-foolery that is called the theory of evolution.
The First Book of Moses: Called Genesis
1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Now the "2nd" part of the story...its the same story, recapped to give the details of the creation of man, and a verse or 2 later, woman:
2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
(King James Bible, Genesis)
Note here that it HAD NOT RAINED, before the creation of ADAM, it was a SHORT time. Note that everything was VERY GOOD, that the beasts had the herb of the field for meat, THERE WAS NO DEATH, no millions of years of 'survival of the fittest', sin had not entered, so neither had death.
Now, let me say this, Jesus mentions Adam and Eve, they were REAL PEOPLE. But here is the big thing, Paul says in Romans 5 that by ADAM's sin, death came upon all men. Now he repeats this SEVERAL times, to show that by ONE MAN, ADAM, sin and death came upon ALL MEN, and by ONE MAN, JESUS, came righteousness. If one does not believe in what the Bible says in Genesis, they may as well not believe Romans. And vice-versa.
Genesis sets up the creation days as 24 hour literal days, and Adam as a real, literal man from whom we all descended. Jesus being the Creator, and the Saviour of the world. I would say too, that science is more in agreement with the stories of the creation and the great flood, then for the tom-foolery that is called the theory of evolution.
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
There is a body of research called Creation Science. There are many good websites you may be able to google that provide much evidence for creation and even a young earth. It would take pages to go over it all. I will say this, that is what I believe from my studies, however, that does not mean that a person who may not believe exactly as I do on this is not a Christian. If one agrees on the essentials of the doctrine of Christ, they are my brother, we can disagree on non-essentials. Or if they don't agree about this, it does not mean they are not a good Jew either, or that they don't believe the OT, we just believe it or interperet or understand it differently, I being more literal in my interpretation except where it clearly shows it is symbolic, etc, using the rules of interpretation, and believing that all scripture is God's very Word to us. I will say about the science part, many people forget to take into account the Great Flood of Noah, which covered the earth, and the catastrophic and tremendous things it did to the earth. Anyway it is worth studying creation science, whatever one may conclude from that.
Ali Ansari
Member
well you can believe any thing you want.joeboonda said:
I’m not saying it can’t, bible may contain words of God also.
in Noah’s flood story of bible also contain grave scientific errors.
are saying this statement is scientifically accurate. I doubt it isn’t.
cause Today science tells us... 'Earth is part of the parent body... the sun.' It cannot come into existence before the sun - It is unscientific.
light before the sun! and at night God switched off the light and he calls it night.
And you are insisting that it is scientifically accurate. How can you say this?
Ok hypothetically I agree with you that God created light with out the sun. Then why he needed sun to be created.
another scientific error cause today science tells us that universe can not be created in 6 24 hour days.
this is not related to the topic but I will answer.
You are say that Bible says that Abraham was going to offer Isaac, and Quran says He was going to offer Ishmael. That is why Quran is wrong.
Supposedly you are say that Bible is always right.
Both the the scripture are claiming to be word of God, so Bible saying this and Quran saying that. It is possible that Quran is right and Bible is wrong, it is possible that Bible is right and Quran is wrong, it is possible that both are wrong. So how can you say Bible is right?
The Bible which you have in your hands and in your PC, it is the translation of translations, you don’t have the Ingeel in the language in which it was revealed.
And you may know that the translation can never be the same.
God says that he was not crucified, Muhammad (pbuh) did'nt made in his own mind.
God (Allah) says in the Quran.
"That they said (in boast), ‘We killed Jesus Christ the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah’ But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is exalted in Power, Wise."
[Al-Qur'ân 4:157-158]
so the thing is it apeared to your eyewitnesses that he was crucified but actually he was not crucified.