Audie
Veteran Member
Stupid, or cynical?
-
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Creation scientists say it was Noah's flood that broke apart the continents. AIG
- Thread starter Twilight Hue
- Start date
Stupid, or cynical?
It's going on right now. Africa is splitting apart at the East Africa Rift; The Himalayas are still rising due to the Indian plate pushing into Asia; Africa is moving north into Europe. Eventually the Mediterranean will close, and a mountain range will rise. Iceland is splitting apart due to the Mid-Atlantic Ridge opening.
Leave it to those wild and craaaazy Icelanders to put a trail in the rift.
joelr
Well-Known Member
The Myth of Noah's Ark
by D.M. Murdock/Acharya S
Is Noah's Ark Real? | The Myth of Noah's Ark
For millennia, countless people have been taught that there was a real man named Noah who somehow piled two (Gen 6:19) - or seven (Gen 7:2), depending on which scripture in the "infallible Word of God" one reads - of every animal on the planet into an ark and with his family survived an enormous global flood. Obviously, to thinkers worldwide this story is logically to be considered an impossible fable, not history.
Over the centuries, many people have tried and failed to find evidence for this implausible tale, largely looking around a mountain in Turkey called Ararat. This quest began hundreds of years ago and pops up in the news periodically, including several times in the 20th and 21st centuries, such as with the Noah's Ark Ministries brouhaha of 2010. At that time, it was claimed that a "wooden structure" was found at about 13,000 feet up Mt. Ararat and had been carbon-dated to around 4,800 years ago, reflecting a "99.9% certainty" it was the "real" ark. Skeptics and Christian evangelists alike soon dissected that claim, as they had so many others in the past.
As noted, ark-hunting is not a new phenomena. Well over a hundred years ago, The Dictionary of the Holy Bible stated in its entry regarding "Ararat": "It has been affirmed, that there are still remains of Noah's ark on the top of this mountain; but M. de Tournefort, who visited the spot, assures us that there was nothing like it..." The Dictionary (89) also tells us that there are many monasteries on the mountain, of which any wood or wooden structure may be a part.
In addition to this plethora of purported "real arks" raising our suspicions are a number of scientific reasons to doubt the reality of any such alleged discovery, including arguments against a global or even local flood and the subsequent dispersion of all human and animal life from Mt. Ararat.
Also, although many such "ark" relics have been located on Mt. Ararat in Turkey, it has been pointed out even by Christian conservatives that "Noah's Ark is not said to have rested on 'Mount Ararat,'" the Bible actually stating that the Ark came to land on the "mountains of Ararat." (Gen 8:4).
It should be noted further that it was a custom, in Scotland for one, to create stone "ships" on mounts in emulation possibly of the sea-burial customs of royalty or of a mythical motif revolving around astrotheology, such that any number of these "arks" may be discovered on Earth.
Another problem with the biblical tradition is that Noah, the man who supposedly built this big boat, was some 600 years old at the time! (Gen 7:6) Nor do we find any logic in the all-powerful God of the universe asking a frail old man to construct such a thing when He could simply have snapped his fingers and, rather than flooding the entire earth, made all the bad people disappear. Instead, the Lord slaughters millions of innocent animals! And then there's the nonsensical follow-up tale where Noah gets drunk and is seen naked by his son Ham, who rats him out to his brothers, an act that so infuriates the hungover patriarch that he curses Ham's son Canaan for all eternity (Gen 9:21-25), causing an enormous amount of racism and suffering based on a pernicision biblical fable.
Ancient flood and ark myths common
Rather than being a historical figure who was the progenitor of three races, Noah is a fictitious character found in the mythologies of a number of different cultures globally, as opposed to being limited to one area and its specific peoples. The Bible story represents a rehash of other myths, changed to revolve around these particular peoples.
Like other biblical tales, the myth of Noah is found in India, Egypt, Babylon, Sumer and other places. The fact is that there have been floods and deluge stories in many different parts of the world, including but not limited to the Middle East. In the Sumerian tale, which predated the biblical by thousands of years, the ark was built by Ziusudra; in Akkad, he was Atrakhasis, and in Babylon, Uta-Napisthim. The Greek Noah was called Deucalion, "who repopulated the earth after the waters subsided" and after the ark landed on Mt. Parnassos. The Armenian flood hero was called Xisuthros, "whose ark landed on Mt. Ararat." Noah's "history" can likewise be found in India, where there is a "tomb of Nuh" near the river Gagra in the district of Oude or Oudh, which may be related to Judea and Judah. The "ark-preserved" Indian Noah was also called "Menu."
Like Noah, the Sumero-Armenian Ziusudra/Xisuthros had three sons, including one named "Japetosthes," essentially the same as Noah's son Japheth, also related to Pra-japati or Jvapeti, son of the Indian Menu, whose other sons possessed virtually the same names as those of Noah, i.e., Shem and Ham. As Oxford University Hebrew professor George Henry Bateson Wright says in Was Israel ever in Egypt? (51):
JAPHETH - Ewald...shows, with great probability, that this was a god of the north, as Ham was of the south, once again in imitation of Hindu mythology. Moreover, the fact, that in the Armenian legend, derived from "Assyrian or Babylonian documents," the three sons of Xisuthros, who corresponds to Noah, are Zervin, Titan, and Japetosthe, is very instructive, suggesting that the unknown foreign word was retained in its original form...
"Coincidentally," it was said that the Egyptian god Osiris was shut up in his ark on the very same day that Noah was likewise so disposed, as I relate in Suns of God (90):
When Osiris's enemies pursue him, he enters into his "boat" on precisely the same date recorded of "Noah's" entrance into his ark, Athyr 17th...long before the biblical tale was invented. Noah is not a Jewish "patriarch" but a sun god, and the tale of entering and exiting the Ark signifies the sun's death and resurrection. The story of the eight passengers in a boat is an astral myth, reflecting the solar system. These eight are equivalent to the Egyptian octet of gods, who sail the ocean in a ship.
Also of interest in this quest are the words attributed to the Babylonian priest Berossus, who described the Flood, giving it a much older date:
The Babylonian Flood itself predates the biblical by about 33,000 years, which demonstrates that the two inundations do not reflect one "historical" flood. Nevertheless, the story of Xisuthras or Ziusudra, the Babylonian Flood king, matches the later biblical account of Noah in important details, a common develoipment with myths. Berossus is even recorded as stating that Ziusudra's ship landed "in the mountains of the Korduaians of Armenia," possibly the Kurdistans, located in the same area where ark-hunters have claimed to have found pieces of "Noah's ark." This story, however, is not historical, and the creation of stone "arks" or ships upon hills was more common than is realized. Moreover, the Noah tale can be found in Mexican mythology: The Mexican Noah is named Nata, while his wife is Nena. In the Indian mythology, in the reign of the "seventh Manu," Satyavrata, the "whole earth" is said to "have been destroyed by a flood, including all mankind, who had beome corrupt." The prince and seven rishis, along with their wives, survived by entering a "spacious vessel," "by command of Vishnu...accompanied by pairs of all animals. (Acharya, Suns of God, 43-44)
Rather than having happened on Earth - a cataclysmic event for which there is no solid, scientific evidence - the story of Noah's Ark actually takes place in the heavens, as Noah and his crew of seven represent the sun, moon, earth and five inner planets. Obviously, Noah's famous "ark," which misguided souls have sought upon the earth, is a motif found in other myths, representing the arc-shaped lower quarter of the moon.
by D.M. Murdock/Acharya S
Is Noah's Ark Real? | The Myth of Noah's Ark
For millennia, countless people have been taught that there was a real man named Noah who somehow piled two (Gen 6:19) - or seven (Gen 7:2), depending on which scripture in the "infallible Word of God" one reads - of every animal on the planet into an ark and with his family survived an enormous global flood. Obviously, to thinkers worldwide this story is logically to be considered an impossible fable, not history.
Over the centuries, many people have tried and failed to find evidence for this implausible tale, largely looking around a mountain in Turkey called Ararat. This quest began hundreds of years ago and pops up in the news periodically, including several times in the 20th and 21st centuries, such as with the Noah's Ark Ministries brouhaha of 2010. At that time, it was claimed that a "wooden structure" was found at about 13,000 feet up Mt. Ararat and had been carbon-dated to around 4,800 years ago, reflecting a "99.9% certainty" it was the "real" ark. Skeptics and Christian evangelists alike soon dissected that claim, as they had so many others in the past.
As noted, ark-hunting is not a new phenomena. Well over a hundred years ago, The Dictionary of the Holy Bible stated in its entry regarding "Ararat": "It has been affirmed, that there are still remains of Noah's ark on the top of this mountain; but M. de Tournefort, who visited the spot, assures us that there was nothing like it..." The Dictionary (89) also tells us that there are many monasteries on the mountain, of which any wood or wooden structure may be a part.
In addition to this plethora of purported "real arks" raising our suspicions are a number of scientific reasons to doubt the reality of any such alleged discovery, including arguments against a global or even local flood and the subsequent dispersion of all human and animal life from Mt. Ararat.
Also, although many such "ark" relics have been located on Mt. Ararat in Turkey, it has been pointed out even by Christian conservatives that "Noah's Ark is not said to have rested on 'Mount Ararat,'" the Bible actually stating that the Ark came to land on the "mountains of Ararat." (Gen 8:4).
It should be noted further that it was a custom, in Scotland for one, to create stone "ships" on mounts in emulation possibly of the sea-burial customs of royalty or of a mythical motif revolving around astrotheology, such that any number of these "arks" may be discovered on Earth.
Another problem with the biblical tradition is that Noah, the man who supposedly built this big boat, was some 600 years old at the time! (Gen 7:6) Nor do we find any logic in the all-powerful God of the universe asking a frail old man to construct such a thing when He could simply have snapped his fingers and, rather than flooding the entire earth, made all the bad people disappear. Instead, the Lord slaughters millions of innocent animals! And then there's the nonsensical follow-up tale where Noah gets drunk and is seen naked by his son Ham, who rats him out to his brothers, an act that so infuriates the hungover patriarch that he curses Ham's son Canaan for all eternity (Gen 9:21-25), causing an enormous amount of racism and suffering based on a pernicision biblical fable.
Ancient flood and ark myths common
Rather than being a historical figure who was the progenitor of three races, Noah is a fictitious character found in the mythologies of a number of different cultures globally, as opposed to being limited to one area and its specific peoples. The Bible story represents a rehash of other myths, changed to revolve around these particular peoples.
Like other biblical tales, the myth of Noah is found in India, Egypt, Babylon, Sumer and other places. The fact is that there have been floods and deluge stories in many different parts of the world, including but not limited to the Middle East. In the Sumerian tale, which predated the biblical by thousands of years, the ark was built by Ziusudra; in Akkad, he was Atrakhasis, and in Babylon, Uta-Napisthim. The Greek Noah was called Deucalion, "who repopulated the earth after the waters subsided" and after the ark landed on Mt. Parnassos. The Armenian flood hero was called Xisuthros, "whose ark landed on Mt. Ararat." Noah's "history" can likewise be found in India, where there is a "tomb of Nuh" near the river Gagra in the district of Oude or Oudh, which may be related to Judea and Judah. The "ark-preserved" Indian Noah was also called "Menu."
Like Noah, the Sumero-Armenian Ziusudra/Xisuthros had three sons, including one named "Japetosthes," essentially the same as Noah's son Japheth, also related to Pra-japati or Jvapeti, son of the Indian Menu, whose other sons possessed virtually the same names as those of Noah, i.e., Shem and Ham. As Oxford University Hebrew professor George Henry Bateson Wright says in Was Israel ever in Egypt? (51):
JAPHETH - Ewald...shows, with great probability, that this was a god of the north, as Ham was of the south, once again in imitation of Hindu mythology. Moreover, the fact, that in the Armenian legend, derived from "Assyrian or Babylonian documents," the three sons of Xisuthros, who corresponds to Noah, are Zervin, Titan, and Japetosthe, is very instructive, suggesting that the unknown foreign word was retained in its original form...
When Osiris's enemies pursue him, he enters into his "boat" on precisely the same date recorded of "Noah's" entrance into his ark, Athyr 17th...long before the biblical tale was invented. Noah is not a Jewish "patriarch" but a sun god, and the tale of entering and exiting the Ark signifies the sun's death and resurrection. The story of the eight passengers in a boat is an astral myth, reflecting the solar system. These eight are equivalent to the Egyptian octet of gods, who sail the ocean in a ship.
Also of interest in this quest are the words attributed to the Babylonian priest Berossus, who described the Flood, giving it a much older date:
The Babylonian Flood itself predates the biblical by about 33,000 years, which demonstrates that the two inundations do not reflect one "historical" flood. Nevertheless, the story of Xisuthras or Ziusudra, the Babylonian Flood king, matches the later biblical account of Noah in important details, a common develoipment with myths. Berossus is even recorded as stating that Ziusudra's ship landed "in the mountains of the Korduaians of Armenia," possibly the Kurdistans, located in the same area where ark-hunters have claimed to have found pieces of "Noah's ark." This story, however, is not historical, and the creation of stone "arks" or ships upon hills was more common than is realized. Moreover, the Noah tale can be found in Mexican mythology: The Mexican Noah is named Nata, while his wife is Nena. In the Indian mythology, in the reign of the "seventh Manu," Satyavrata, the "whole earth" is said to "have been destroyed by a flood, including all mankind, who had beome corrupt." The prince and seven rishis, along with their wives, survived by entering a "spacious vessel," "by command of Vishnu...accompanied by pairs of all animals. (Acharya, Suns of God, 43-44)
Rather than having happened on Earth - a cataclysmic event for which there is no solid, scientific evidence - the story of Noah's Ark actually takes place in the heavens, as Noah and his crew of seven represent the sun, moon, earth and five inner planets. Obviously, Noah's famous "ark," which misguided souls have sought upon the earth, is a motif found in other myths, representing the arc-shaped lower quarter of the moon.
Audie
Veteran Member
So... catastrophic events never happen?
Is that really -really what you think was being said? Seriously?
I mean, whisky tango?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
When catastrophic events occur they tend to leave evidence. The evidence from a worldwide flood would be obvious from several different perspectives. Why can we see any? More important, why are flood believers afraid to test their beliefs?So... catastrophic events never happen?
Audie
Veteran Member
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
It is. But as in many terms the meaning can be drawn from the context. For a farmer living along the Mississippi a strong spring flood could be personally catastrophic. But that is clearly not what we are discussing here. What we are discussing would be a flood that would beyond any otherwise rational explanation.
For example the floods that formed the Channeled Scablands are still very small compared to what we would see from over five vertical miles of water coming and leaving within the space of one year.
Channeled Scablands - Wikipedia
Audie
Veteran Member
My comment of course was mostly re the
killer gotcha about how "catastrophes never
happen"
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
That's also like asking literal minded Christians just where all the dead bodies are. After all, according to the narratives, Noahs family was all that was left alive on the whole entire Earth. :0)
Audie
Veteran Member
You FOOL!!! Look up!!
Remember the wind that wafted it away?
To where? NEPTUNE, where it shines
to this day as a warning beacon against
incoming rogue Angels!!!
That's where!
gnostic
The Lost One
Yes, it is the most recent, but it started breaking up around about 175 million years ago, around the middle of the Jurassic period, the ages of dinosaurs.
So long before the first appearance of the first Homo (eg Homo habilis, less than 2.4 million years ago). While the Homo sapiens only began appearing around 200,000 years ago.
Judging by the number of years presented in the Hebrew Tanakh or Christian Old Testament, the Flood supposedly set around 4500 years ago. May be shorter, maybe longer, give or take a couple of centuries, depending on how people interpret Exodus 12:40-41; whether this passage referred to Jacob migrating into Egypt (Genesis 46), or to when Abraham receive his covenant just before Ishmael was born (Genesis 15).
4500 years ago would mean Bronze Age in the 3rd millennium BCE.
If Genesis WERE true, then the Noah’s Flood cannot be what split Pangaea apart.
Personally, I just think the people of AiG are just bunch of dishonest idiots, including Ken Ham. I am just thankful he is no longer living in Australia. Farewell, and good riddance, the Americans can keep Ken Ham.
Last edited:
Audie
Veteran Member
They are well matched to the religion
they support.
It is hard to separate out the dumb
from dumber in any of the strange
stories and inerrant readings of them.
People who dismiss the idea of a great flood need to rethink their view.
There is plenty of scientific evidence that half (1/2) of the earth was covered in ice about 650 million years ago. Since then the ice has been melting to the point where we have only the Antarctic remaining.
Still, 50%+/- of the earth was covered in ice some 650 million years ago------
A study by NASA and university researchers, published in the June 14, 2013 issue of Science, found however that ocean waters melting the undersides of Antarctic ice shelves are responsible for most of the continent's ice shelf mass loss.[2]
Ice shelf - Wikipedia
The Snowball Earth hypothesis proposes that during one or more of Earth's icehouse climates, Earth's surface became entirely or nearly entirely frozen at least once, sometime earlier than 650 Mya(million years ago). Proponents of the hypothesis argue that it best explains sedimentary deposits generally regarded as of glacial origin at tropicalpalaeolatitudes and other enigmatic features in the geological record. Opponents of the hypothesis contest the implications of the geological evidence for global glaciation and the geophysical feasibility of an ice- or slush-covered ocean[3][4]
Snowball Earth - Wikipedia
"Snowball Earth" Confirmed: Ice Covered EquatorEarth's now steamy Equator was covered with ice 716 million years ago, according to a new study.
Strange fossil may be rare insect preserved in gemstone.
The finding appears to add solid evidence to the theory of an ancient "snowball Earth."
"Snowball Earth" Confirmed: Ice Covered Equator
In the beginning, planet Earth was a very inhospitable place with no oxygen and only single-celled bacteria as inhabitants. According to a new study, the oxygen content in the air began to increase about 2.4 billion years ago, at the same time as the global glaciation and when all continents were gathered in a single huge landmass, or supercontinent. How to explain the exact connection between these events, however, is a question that baffles the researchers.
Oxygen content increased when Earth was covered in ice
A Brief History of Ice Ages and Warming
Global warming started long before the "Industrial Revolution" and the invention of the internal combustion engine. Global warming began 18,000 years ago as the earth started warming its way out of the Pleistocene Ice Age-- a time when much of North America, Europe, and Asia lay buried beneath great sheets of glacial ice.
Global Warming:A Chilling Perspective
As the ice sheet melted the runoff looked like a flood, so they called it a “GREAT FLOOD”
There is ample proof of a great flood and now it is time to flip the argument. It is time for the doubters to prove there wasn’t a flood.
Deniers, it’s your turn; go for it !!!!
There is plenty of scientific evidence that half (1/2) of the earth was covered in ice about 650 million years ago. Since then the ice has been melting to the point where we have only the Antarctic remaining.
Still, 50%+/- of the earth was covered in ice some 650 million years ago------
A study by NASA and university researchers, published in the June 14, 2013 issue of Science, found however that ocean waters melting the undersides of Antarctic ice shelves are responsible for most of the continent's ice shelf mass loss.[2]
Ice shelf - Wikipedia
The Snowball Earth hypothesis proposes that during one or more of Earth's icehouse climates, Earth's surface became entirely or nearly entirely frozen at least once, sometime earlier than 650 Mya(million years ago). Proponents of the hypothesis argue that it best explains sedimentary deposits generally regarded as of glacial origin at tropicalpalaeolatitudes and other enigmatic features in the geological record. Opponents of the hypothesis contest the implications of the geological evidence for global glaciation and the geophysical feasibility of an ice- or slush-covered ocean[3][4]
Snowball Earth - Wikipedia
"Snowball Earth" Confirmed: Ice Covered EquatorEarth's now steamy Equator was covered with ice 716 million years ago, according to a new study.
Strange fossil may be rare insect preserved in gemstone.
The finding appears to add solid evidence to the theory of an ancient "snowball Earth."
"Snowball Earth" Confirmed: Ice Covered Equator
In the beginning, planet Earth was a very inhospitable place with no oxygen and only single-celled bacteria as inhabitants. According to a new study, the oxygen content in the air began to increase about 2.4 billion years ago, at the same time as the global glaciation and when all continents were gathered in a single huge landmass, or supercontinent. How to explain the exact connection between these events, however, is a question that baffles the researchers.
Oxygen content increased when Earth was covered in ice
A Brief History of Ice Ages and Warming
Global warming started long before the "Industrial Revolution" and the invention of the internal combustion engine. Global warming began 18,000 years ago as the earth started warming its way out of the Pleistocene Ice Age-- a time when much of North America, Europe, and Asia lay buried beneath great sheets of glacial ice.
Global Warming:A Chilling Perspective
As the ice sheet melted the runoff looked like a flood, so they called it a “GREAT FLOOD”
There is ample proof of a great flood and now it is time to flip the argument. It is time for the doubters to prove there wasn’t a flood.
Deniers, it’s your turn; go for it !!!!
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Why post this nonsense on two different threads? That might qualify as spamming.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The hilarious part is that they even created their very own 'peer Review-Journal' so they can make a claim their stuff went through the peer-review process and published in a 'scientific' journal .
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I'll bet Noah froze his ****s off once God sent the great snow to freeze the entire Earth.
The intent is to expand viewers which increases more points of view.
If I thought every poster looks at every thread then I wouldn't have to do it this way; which is NOT spamming.
-now do you have something to add to the topic or are you complaining just to spam a complaint-?