Creationism Creates Confusion for Christians

[Brickjectivity]

They conflate the god of this world with the God of love, leading to endless problems.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

 

[metis]

They conflate the god of this world with the God of love, leading to endless problems.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

I like the Buddhist teaching that how we got here originally is irrelevant to today's here & now. However, I do have the curiosity as an anthropologist.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I like the Buddhist teaching that how we got here originally is irrelevant to today's here & now. However, I do have the curiosity as an anthropologist.

I appreciate your perspective, and I recall your experience both as a teacher of religion and as a follower.

Buddhists come in as many flavors as Christians. There are levels in their study and practice, too. The various schools adapt to the societies they conquer, and they absorb superstitions in the process. I cannot not conclude they are forever safe from creationism or from beginnisms. Otherwise their text would not warn against it, and whatever is warned against must be something which is occasionally a concern.

 

[wellwisher]

Creation does not create confusion, per se. What creates confusion is Atheism not understanding creation and trying to explain it in their way, instead of trying to understand it, in an historical and symbolic way. If someone does not understand and then insults you, one tends to get defensive and take a harder line stance; pride. Without Atheist confusion and insult, the spiritual are not as fixated as Atheism on Creationism. They instigate that.

If you look at Adam, the story goes he is created in a non biological way; from the dust of the earth. This clue tells me Adam, was not a product of biological evolution. He did not appear like a missing link; genetic change. A hint comes from science in that the invention of written language appears in the time scale of Genesis; 6000 years ago. In the beginning was the word and the word was God; first written word was God from that the first alphabet appears. Written language advanced learning by an order of magnitude. It resulted in a change within the human mind, not due to nature; DNA, but due to nurture; Modern human mind with new ways to learn and think.

Picture going to school and having no books and no written language. It all you have is word of mouth from the teacher, but no good way to record the details; taking notes for study or read a book, only your memory, which will miss things. What is learned will be forgotten sooner and with different people picking up different details and forgetting in different ways. The agreed truth a week later may come down to might is right or a confident sounding story is right.

Once you could write things down, the truth of a moment time, could be preserved for all time; beyond the story teller. This allowed for a stable base on which the search of truth could advance. One can always go back and refresh from the original source and rebuilt the house of knowledge. Adam was working on this invention, alone, and he became lonely, from too much work and studying. Adam is put to sleep; takes some time off from creating.

Eve comes from a rib of Adam. This symbolism is biological, but not exactly natural. It is more like biological and technical; cloning and stem cells. To me this implies that Adam invented written language; learned by trial, error and inspiration, making stone dust on stone tablets. Eve is still natural, but she tot advances, learning written language from Adam, and gaining the value it can provide. Eve remained natural, but with an important skill they could share, that came from the creative; created, side of Adam.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil, which symbolizes law, led to a unique problem in terms of the new invention of writing. Law with just spoken language, would atrophy with time; forget why that law was made, allowing law to change with time. But once it was written and cast into stone, old laws could linger way beyond their usefulness and become repressive to the future.

Law is often relative and subjective and not always objective like plotting the motion of the stars and planets or keeping track of food stockpiles over the years. Subjective one size fits all law, cast into stone, caused a repression where it did not fit properly; become unnatural. The Bible then describes humans losing innocence and some trying to find their way back home, to natural. The tree of life or natural instinct is cut off.

Today we have two centers of consciousness; inner self and ego. The ego is what give us will and choice, even the choice to become unnatural. Adam was the first modern ego, induced by repression The ego appears to help us cope in the unnatural environment called civilization and law. Instinct has little place there and is buried until the time is can appear again, with an updated ego.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Creation does not create confusion, per se. What creates confusion is Atheism not understanding creation and trying to explain it in their way, instead of trying to understand it, in an historical and symbolic way. If someone does not understand and then insults you, one tends to get defensive and take a harder line stance; pride. Without Atheist confusion and insult, the spiritual are not as fixated as Atheism on Creationism. They instigate that

The atheists are required to exhibit the fruits of the spirit. Good plan!

If you look at Adam, the story goes he is created in a non biological way; from the dust of the earth. This clue tells me Adam, was not a product of biological evolution. He did not appear like a missing link; genetic change. A hint comes from science in that the invention of written language appears in the time scale of Genesis; 6000 years ago. In the beginning was the word and the word was God; first written word was God from that the first alphabet appears. Written language advanced learning by an order of magnitude. It resulted in a change within the human mind, not due to nature; DNA, but due to nurture; Modern human mind with new ways to learn and think.

Let me put it to you that 'Adam' is the same as 'Red' referring to our common human brotherhood, a shared blood. I agree it has important symbolism and a message fathers want to convey to their sons. It is a message of peace. This opposes the symbols and messages of the surrounding counties about the divinity and purity of nobles. Such belief in nobility is like a fungus that keeps appearing in humankind. More recently our own free America used it to maintain the slave industry, even involving Christian missionaries to further the lie that we are different, that their is nobility in blood. 'Adam' opposes this. We are all one bood.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Written language advanced learning by an order of magnitude. It resulted in a change within the human mind, not due to nature; DNA, but due to nurture; Modern human mind with new ways to learn and think.

At the same time, large scale agriculture created different classes of workers and drove home the lie of nobility.

Once you could write things down, the truth of a moment time, could be preserved for all time; beyond the story teller.

I see what you're saying.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil, which symbolizes law,

I think I see how that can be. I also think that Paul assumes this (about the tree) in Romans.

The ego is what give us will and choice, even the choice to become unnatural. Adam was the first modern ego, induced by repression The ego appears to help us cope in the unnatural environment called civilization and law.

Given the small amount of Anthropology that I am aware of I think I agree on this point that civilization does push humanity out of our comfort zone and does raise dangers and ongoing problems At the same time I am unwilling to give civilization up, because our combined powers are great. Together we can do impressive feats.

 

[YoursTrue]

They conflate the god of this world with the God of love, leading to endless problems.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

yup that's true. (Have a good one as we encounter all sorts of horror stories and then, of course, evolution winding up in -- death. Enjoy.)

 

[YoursTrue]

I appreciate your perspective, and I recall your experience both as a teacher of religion and as a follower.

Buddhists come in as many flavors as Christians. There are levels in their study and practice, too. The various schools adapt to the societies they conquer, and they absorb superstitions in the process. I cannot not conclude they are forever safe from creationism or from beginnisms. Otherwise their text would not warn against it, and whatever is warned against must be something which is occasionally a concern.

Like it's reasoning that counts insofar as adaptation goes? It depends on what the concern is. The theory of evolution seems to have it that death is inevitable. Like from dust to dust almost. With certain exceptions. So it's kind of interesting to see differing opinions about that. Even within what is considered a whole big area of religious foundation. (Buddhism, so-called Christianity, Judaism, whatever...)

 

[YoursTrue]

At the same time, large scale agriculture created different classes of workers and drove home the lie of nobility.


I see what you're saying.


I think I see how that can be. I also think that Paul assumes this (about the tree) in Romans.

Given the small amount of Anthropology that I am aware of I think I agree on this point that civilization does push humanity out of our comfort zone and does raise dangers and ongoing problems At the same time I am unwilling to give civilization up, because our combined powers are great. Together we can do impressive feats.

Well, we're talking here about those believing creation vs. evolution, is that right? How do you think creation creates confusion with what you call Christianity, or something like that? Please delineate and might you kindly explain. Thank you.

 

[Astrophile]

yup that's true. (Have a good one as we encounter all sorts of horror stories and then, of course, evolution winding up in -- death. Enjoy.)

I don't know whether you think that individual living things evolve during their lifetime, and that this evolution winds up with the death of the individual, but this is not how evolution works.

All living things die, but a lot of individual organisms reproduce themselves (sexually or asexually) before dying, and it is the changes from one generation to the next that are the working material of evolution. Evolution (the origin of new species) will continue, through this process of descent with modification, as long as life continues to exist on Earth. Terrestrial life will end when the Sun expands into a red giant star and the oceans evaporate, not because evolution inevitably 'winds up in death'.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Well, we're talking here about those believing creation vs. evolution, is that right? How do you think creation creates confusion with what you call Christianity, or something like that? Please delineate and might you kindly explain. Thank you.

Whether or not there is evolution I think that creationism is taking Genesis and Pentateuch out of its home. Its not about the creation of a planet, which is what Earth is. We're on a planet, but Genesis is about the creation of a people who we call Jews. Its actually part 1 of a 5 book series.

In your responses you say evolution implies death. The gospel requires denial of the self, for Christ. A grown man can accept death, but even children do. No man has greater love than to "Lay down his life for his friend." That's real love, and its what is required. Fake love is not required. Fake love is fake religion.

What about the resurrection? Repentance is resurrection, and its plenty good enough to be called that. When you repent you put to death your old ways and become something new. Jesus calls it resurrection. Why not just accept it? Because we are afraid, because we desire more time, because we tend to want more of everything. We reject the real resurrection which is repentance and desire instead a pagan resurrection, a means of pleasing our emotions and bodies, a return to this or a world like this.

We have stories about Jesus rising from the dead and visiting his apostles, but in the same books Jesus says "I am the resurrection and the life." Paul says "You were dead in your sins and trespasses." This is easy to explain. Anyone who rejects this rejects the resurrection -- the real resurrection.

 

[YoursTrue]

Whether or not there is evolution I think that creationism is taking Genesis and Pentateuch out of its home. Its not about the creation of a planet, which is what Earth is. We're on a planet, but Genesis is about the creation of a people who we call Jews. Its actually part 1 of a 5 book series.

In your responses you say evolution implies death. The gospel requires denial of the self, for Christ. A grown man can accept death, but even children do. No man has greater love than to "Lay down his life for his friend." That's real love, and its what is required. Fake love is not required. Fake love is fake religion.

What about the resurrection? Repentance is resurrection, and its plenty good enough to be called that. When you repent you put to death your old ways and become something new. Jesus calls it resurrection. Why not just accept it? Because we are afraid, because we desire more time, because we tend to want more of everything. We reject the real resurrection which is repentance and desire instead a pagan resurrection, a means of pleasing our emotions and bodies, a return to this or a world like this.

We have stories about Jesus rising from the dead and visiting his apostles, but in the same books Jesus says "I am the resurrection and the life." Paul says "You were dead in your sins and trespasses." This is easy to explain. Anyone who rejects this rejects the resurrection -- the real resurrection.

I am saying that those who believe and think that life came about on the earth by chemical reaction without a higher intelligence involved cannot believe in the God as outlined in the Bible. Also for @Astrophile

 

[YoursTrue]

Whether or not there is evolution I think that creationism is taking Genesis and Pentateuch out of its home. Its not about the creation of a planet, which is what Earth is. We're on a planet, but Genesis is about the creation of a people who we call Jews. Its actually part 1 of a 5 book series.

In your responses you say evolution implies death. The gospel requires denial of the self, for Christ. A grown man can accept death, but even children do. No man has greater love than to "Lay down his life for his friend." That's real love, and its what is required. Fake love is not required. Fake love is fake religion.

What about the resurrection? Repentance is resurrection, and its plenty good enough to be called that. When you repent you put to death your old ways and become something new. Jesus calls it resurrection. Why not just accept it? Because we are afraid, because we desire more time, because we tend to want more of everything. We reject the real resurrection which is repentance and desire instead a pagan resurrection, a means of pleasing our emotions and bodies, a return to this or a world like this.

We have stories about Jesus rising from the dead and visiting his apostles, but in the same books Jesus says "I am the resurrection and the life." Paul says "You were dead in your sins and trespasses." This is easy to explain. Anyone who rejects this rejects the resurrection -- the real resurrection.

There is more than one type of death in the Bible, but I'm sure you knew that.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I am saying that those who believe and think that life came about on the earth by chemical reaction without a higher intelligence involved cannot believe in the God as outlined in the Bible. Also for @Astrophile

There are passages in the bible which talk about the god of this world and about this world passing away. It is the world which creationism mistakenly claims is God's. Creationism is confusing, because this world is not good. Creationism, ironically, is teaching that this physical planet is good and reflects God; but its not and doesn't reflect God.

Nothing in the bible should lead one to believe that planet earth is a creation. Israel is a creation. The church is a creation. These are created by God. The planet is chaotic, and we try to change and improve it using God's principles. The principles in God were hidden and only slowly discovered as the prophets sought them out.

Then it follows that there is no problem between Christ and evolution, although evolution is irrelevant. How this physical world comes to be is irrelevant. It is not treated in scripture except as metaphors. An example of a metaphor can be found in Job which poetically talks about the foundations of the earth, meaning Israel. The stars which are the sons of Abraham are mentioned poetically in Psalms. The oceans are poetically mentioned in Psalms in reference to the nations surrounding Israel. Thus the natural world is mentioned in scriptures; however it isn't God's creation.

 

[YoursTrue]

There are passages in the bible which talk about the god of this world and about this world passing away. It is the world which creationism mistakenly claims is God's.

Huh? When Jesus prayed what is commonly called the Lord's Prayer he asked his Father to let his Kingdom come to the earth. He wouldn't need to ask if the earth and everything in it was being run by God.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Huh? When Jesus prayed what is commonly called the Lord's Prayer he asked his Father to let his Kingdom come to the earth. He wouldn't need to ask if the earth and everything in it was being run by God.

...or created by God.

 

[YoursTrue]

...or created by God.

God allows.
But the day is coming that the misery will stop.

 

[Brickjectivity]

God allows.
But the day is coming that the misery will stop.

Things cannot continue as they are. This is an evil time for the church, because it keeps trying to preserve truth. I think healing all starts with communion and reuniting everyone with serious dedication. Truth is not the solution but a result of forgiving others. Forgiveness is the solution. Perfect love casts out fear. Pride has to go, and until it does the misery continues. The manna will rot in the jar.

Of you want "The misery" to end, then end it by getting rid of all the separations, creeds and pride; but that is the last thing creationism brings to churches. It is someone's attempt to preserve truth, but truth is a result of love not the root of it. Truth is like manna. I know this analogy doesn't go far, but the point is that people die and new ones are born. We can't set up systems for preserving truth, but the parents just won't stop believing that they can. Then they screw up their children, just like trying to store manna for three days. It can't be done. You can't preserve the essence of truth by any means: not science, not pamphlets, not missionary organizations, not vacation bible schools. They all rot.

Creation has more than one interpretation, obviously. You can't unite people around the topic.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I am saying that those who believe and think that life came about on the earth by chemical reaction without a higher intelligence involved cannot believe in the God as outlined in the Bible. Also for @Astrophile

Or otherwise put....

When you are a believer in god as outlined in the bible (in your opinion), one has to come into this question with a pre-determined mind that said god is the answer to the question, even before asking the question.


It seems you yourself (and you alone) are guilty of the very thing you accusing others off...
Having pre-determined answers to even unasked questions while being very closed minded about it.

 

[YoursTrue]

Things cannot continue as they are. This is an evil time for the church, because it keeps trying to preserve truth. I think healing all starts with communion and reuniting everyone with serious dedication. Truth is not the solution but a result of forgiving others. Forgiveness is the solution. Perfect love casts out fear. Pride has to go, and until it does the misery continues. The manna will rot in the jar.

Of you want "The misery" to end, then end it by getting rid of all the separations, creeds and pride; but that is the last thing creationism brings to churches. It is someone's attempt to preserve truth, but truth is a result of love not the root of it. Truth is like manna. I know this analogy doesn't go far, but the point is that people die and new ones are born. We can't set up systems for preserving truth, but the parents just won't stop believing that they can. Then they screw up their children, just like trying to store manna for three days. It can't be done. You can't preserve the essence of truth by any means: not science, not pamphlets, not missionary organizations, not vacation bible schools. They all rot.

Creation has more than one interpretation, obviously. You can't unite people around the topic.

Interesting point about the church trying to preserve truth. Please, by that what do you mean? (I do agree that you can't unite all people around a topic, but please do say what truth you say the church is trying to preserve, might be helpful for this discussion, thanks.)