Creationists: A Very Simple Question

[Justatruthseeker]

They are all transitional.

Perhaps you dont understand the meaning of the word transitional. I know for sure you dont understand biology and genetics

I point to my avatar image because it is a transitional fossil, this i know as fact, i discovered it and was involved in its excavation, examination and 3 different dating processes along with several thousand others dated over a 22 thousand year period.
I know precisely what a human skull and a cro magnon skull look like so incredulously denying fact with nothing to back up your clam only makes you look like you are grasping at straws.

That is why i use it because the god magic brigade always deny its fact and it makesme laugh

What have not human sculls not looked the same. Will you tricked yourself there. They dont look the same because of... You guessed it... Evolution

Nope i am not confused but you are most assuredly deliberately ignorant on the subject of transitional fossils

It's not any more a transitional than the wolf which came before the Pug is a transitional to the Pug....


I asked you why should I assume it is transitional given the incredible range of skull sizes and shapes we see just among dogs of the same species?

You haven't answered that.

You know what a wolf and a Pug skull look like too, yet you do understand that despite complete differences in appearance they are the same species, do you not?

No, dog skulls don't look the same because of the variety already existing inside the genome. They were brought about by breeding and backcrossing, not by evolution.... They remain the exact same species they started as. It is you that assumes a skull looking different than a modern human means it is of a different species... Even when the pug skull looks different than the wolfs and is of the same species.....

You are tricking yourself and don't even realize it because you keep ignoring that great variety right in front of your eyes.


Can you even see it????

Can you even see the incredible variety within the *SAME* species???

I don't think you can. I think you look at the picture and it just goes right through without even processing because that variety in the *SAME* species is invisible to you...

Convince me the cr0-magnon is a separate species because it looks a little different than modern humans? The fact you dug it up doesn't make it a separate species. Neither does time. The Pug can not be found in the record until well after the wolf..... 100,000 to 300,00 years in fact even with man interfering and accelerating the process in the last 10,000 that without man would have taken many hundreds of thousands to millions of years.....

the only magic I see is your hand waving away the great variety that can exist in a species and insisting instead an even smaller change means different species....

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ive told you over and over...

When you got something scientific to add let me know..... until then case closed....

So why do you continuously avoid presenting this evidence? How many times must you be told to add it if you got it???? And you say I'm the one avoiding? lol, you best learn what avoidance is, it's all you've done for 10 posts and running....

I avoid giving you the evidence because your repeatedly demonstrate that you either do not understand the concept of evidence or that you are lying. It would do no good to give you evidence in either case. It is a rather simple matter for you to learn what is and what is not evidence and yet you avoid that like that plague. Why do you do that?

 

[Justatruthseeker]

I avoid giving you the evidence because your repeatedly demonstrate that you either do not understand the concept of evidence or that you are lying. It would do no good to give you evidence in either case. It is a rather simple matter for you to learn what is and what is not evidence and yet you avoid that like that plague. Why do you do that?

When you got something scientific to add let me know..... until then case closed....

 

[Subduction Zone]

When you got something scientific to add let me know..... until then case closed....

I do have something scientific. There is a price to pay. But just for fun here is a transitional fossil:

Do you know how we know that it is transitional?

 

[ChristineM]

It's not any more a transitional than the wolf which came before the Pug is a transitional to the Pug....


I asked you why should I assume it is transitional given the incredible range of skull sizes and shapes we see just among dogs of the same species?

You haven't answered that.

You know what a wolf and a Pug skull look like too, yet you do understand that despite complete differences in appearance they are the same species, do you not?

No, dog skulls don't look the same because of the variety already existing inside the genome. They were brought about by breeding and backcrossing, not by evolution.... They remain the exact same species they started as. It is you that assumes a skull looking different than a modern human means it is of a different species... Even when the pug skull looks different than the wolfs and is of the same species.....

You are tricking yourself and don't even realize it because you keep ignoring that great variety right in front of your eyes.


Can you even see it????
View attachment 27878
Can you even see the incredible variety within the *SAME* species???

I don't think you can. I think you look at the picture and it just goes right through without even processing because that variety in the *SAME* species is invisible to you...

Convince me the cr0-magnon is a separate species because it looks a little different than modern humans? The fact you dug it up doesn't make it a separate species. Neither does time. The Pug can not be found in the record until well after the wolf..... 100,000 to 300,00 years in fact even with man interfering and accelerating the process in the last 10,000 that without man would have taken many hundreds of thousands to millions of years.....

the only magic I see is your hand waving away the great variety that can exist in a species and insisting instead an even smaller change means different species....

You obviously have no intention of comprehending evolution and would deny proven fact just to massage your own ignorance.

You can be educated if you want, that is entirely up to you. I know @Subduction Zone has offered to help you and you have spit in his face. You wont be doing that with me because i have no tolerance for deliberate ignorance and lies.

You are welcome to believe whatever you want but dont you ever try to discredit my knowledge on a subject you know nothing about.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

I do have something scientific. There is a price to pay. But just for fun here is a transitional fossil:

Do you know how we know that it is transitional?

Because you imagine an extinct creature evolved into something else before it went extinct.

I’ll ask you the same question your co conspirator can’t answer.

Given the great variety we see in dogs, what makes you think it is transitional to anything and not just a different breed of bird?

However, it was not the only bird of the time. Very recently, another bird of almost the same age was discovered in northeastern China, and named Confuciusornis Confuciusornis resembles Archaeopteryx in having wing claws, but unlike Archaeopteryx and like modern birds, Confuciusornis lacked teeth.

So why isn’t Confuciusornis the transitional since like modern birds it lacks teeth?

Or is it you haven’t a clue really so any will do as long as we call them transitional and not merely different breeds of the same species?????

 

[ChristineM]

Given the great variety we see in dogs, what makes you think it is transitional to anything and not just a different breed of bird?

What? Did you really say that?

I’ll ask you the same question your co conspirator can’t answer.

There is a big difference between not wasting my time on a lost cause and not answering. I suggest you check things before making bloody stupid claims

 

[Justatruthseeker]

You obviously have no intention of comprehending evolution and would deny proven fact just to massage your own ignorance.

You can be educated if you want, that is entirely up to you. I know @Subduction Zone has offered to help you and you have spit in his face. You wont be doing that with me because i have no tolerance for deliberate ignorance and lies.

You are welcome to believe whatever you want but dont you ever try to discredit my knowledge on a subject you know nothing about.

You haven’t proved anything except in your own mind.

You show me a skull that looks slightly different than mine. Insist it is a separate species. On your say so.

I show you instead factual evidence that different sizes and shapes of skulls don’t mean separate species but can belong to the same species.

You ignore the fact, as I said you would by not even being able to see that great variety.

Then because you can’t give a valid reason you resort to the standard evolutionists tactic. Blame the other person for not understanding because you can’t prove your point.

Cro-Magnon is no more a transitional and separate species than is the wolf to the pug.

But keep ignoring the evidence right in front of your eyes for your “belief”.

You got nothing but your imagination and faith and you know it while I’m presenting hard evidentiary data and that just tears you up to the point your closing in on the evolutionists last tactic of defense. Personal insults.

 

[ChristineM]

You haven’t proved anything except in your own mind.

You show me a skull that looks slightly different than mine. Insist it is a separate species. On your say so.

I show you instead factual evidence that different sizes and shapes of skulls don’t mean separate species but can belong to the same species.

You ignore the fact, as I said you would by not even being able to see that great variety.

Then because you can’t give a valid reason you resort to the standard evolutionists tactic. Blame the other person for not understanding because you can’t prove your point.

Cro-Magnon is no more a transitional and separate species than is the wolf to the pug.

But keep ignoring the evidence right in front of your eyes for your “belief”.

You got nothing but your imagination and faith and you know it while I’m presenting hard evidentiary data and that just tears you up to the point your closing in on the evolutionists last tactic was f defense. Personal insults.

Wrong, you havent accepted the proof.

Who said it is a separate species. I challenge you to show the post that you claim i said that

You are fixated on species, what is your hangup?

The reason i ignored it is because its a straw man, as i said i a not wasting my time trying to educate the uneducable.

Cro magnon is early modern human, classed as 100% homo sapiens yet different in bone structure and density to modern humans of today. That is because of evolution. You may deny that until you are blue in the face, i do not care, fact is fact, end of story

I got science, archeology, anthropology, genetics to back me up, what you got? A bronze age book and faith.

You are presenting irrelevant bullpoop that means nothing to your argument.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

What? Did you really say that?



There is a big difference between not wasting my time on a lost cause and not answering. I suggest you check things before making bloody stupid claims

When you got something scientific to add let me know. Until then you are but a waste of time...

 

[Skwim]

Not a single transitional creature has been found......

Know what? Most species end up as being transitional.

These:

Are no different than these:

just different breeds within their own respective species.

Well they are, and a very significant difference it is. Whereas as ALL dogs belong to the subspecies famaliaris, a member off the Canis lupus species (which also includes the wolves and coyotes), the ceratopsians you've shown not only belong to different species, they also belong to different genera, if not also a few different families.

And while we're at it, please write this down. Breeds do not develop naturally. Breeds arise from the purposeful manipulation of animal mating by humans. Think there were humans around concocting all the different ceratopsians? Of course not.


My suggestion is that if you want to debate evolution and taxonomy at least bone up on it a bit.

.

 

[ChristineM]

When you got something scientific to add let me know. Until then you are but a waste of time...

Science has been included, it is no ones fault but your own that you choose to spam the thread rather than learn

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Wrong, you havent accepted the proof.

Who said it is a separate species. I challenge you to show the post that you claim i said that

You are fixated on species, what is your hangup?

The reason i ignored it is because its a straw man, as i said i a not wasting my time trying to educate the uneducable.

Cro magnon is early modern human, classed as 100% homo sapiens yet different in bone structure and density to modern humans of today. That is because of evolution. You may deny that until you are blue in the face, i do not care, fact is fact, end of story

Who cares? The bone structure of the wolf is denser than the Terrier, doesn’t make the wolf an evolutionary transitional to anything.

If Cro-Magnon is not a separate species then it is merely a variety within the species and isn’t transitional to anything. Anymore than the wolf is transitional to the Terrier...... merely just a different breed or race of human.

It’s your distorted thinking and ignoring that variety within the species that leads you to other views.

Unlike the wolf the Cro-Magnon just happened to go extinct, so is unable to defend itself against your false accusations against it.

I got science, archeology, anthropology, genetics to back me up, what you got? A bronze age book and faith.

You got ignoring science is what you got. You call birds mating right in front of your face separate species. Genetics that told you they were the same species, but that was ignored.

You got a bait and switch where you talk about DNA relationship testing (tests proven in a court of law) then switch it with a test that randomly matches parts of one to random parts of another, after you cut out 13% of one and 23% of the other. Not even similar to the test proven to show relationship.

Don’t try that bait and switch with me..... it just makes you look foolish not even understanding it isn’t even similar to the test proven to show relationship. But hey, without those algorithms finding random matches you wouldn’t be able to say they were similar. So I understand, I really do.....

You are presenting irrelevant bullpoop that means nothing to your argument.

Like this was relevant to our discussion????

As I said, closing in on the last line of defense. Personal insults. Should be coming anytime now....Oh look, a tentative attempt already. Lol, you evolutionists just crack me up....

 

[Skwim]

Which one of these is transitional?

OMG!, you don't even know what the word "transitional" means, do you. Here:

transitional
adjective
tran·si·tion·al | \ tran(t)-ˈsish-nəl
tran(t)-ˈsizh-, tran-ˈzish-; tran(t)-ˈsi-shə-nᵊl, tran-ˈzi-, -zhə-\
Definition of transitional
: marked by transition : involving, providing, or consisting of a passage, movement, or change from one state, condition, subject, place, etc., to another
​

Thing is, the dogs of C lupus may be transitional, but we wouldn't know for certain until a significant amount of time has passed in order to say what that transition is. or perhaps Canis lupus will be a dead end species, never transitioning into anything at all. But with the variety of animals that make up Canis lupus (38 subspecies) it's far more likely they will transition into something else.


.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Science has been included, it is no ones fault but your own that you choose to spam the thread rather than learn

SZ is the one spamming junk not even on the topic we were discussing.

But it seems I got to include you now too...

When you got something scientific to add let me know. Otherwise you are just wasting my time.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

OMG!, you don't even know what the word "transitional" means, do you. Here:

transitional
adjective
tran·si·tion·al | \ tran(t)-ˈsish-nəl
tran(t)-ˈsizh-, tran-ˈzish-; tran(t)-ˈsi-shə-nᵊl, tran-ˈzi-, -zhə-\
Definition of transitional
: marked by transition : involving, providing, or consisting of a passage, movement, or change from one state, condition, subject, place, etc., to another
​

Thing is, all the dogs of C lupus may be transitional, but we wouldn't know for certain until a significant amount of time has passed in order to say what that transition is. Perhaps Canis lupus will be a dead end species, never transitioning into anything at all. But with the variety of animals that make up Canis lupus (38 subspecies) it's far more likely they will transition into something new.


.

I know exactly what it means.

Transitional forms

“Fossils or organisms that show the intermediate states between an ancestral form and that of its descendants are referred to as transitional forms.”

So what is the ancestral form of cro-magnon since we are it’s descendants?????

Apparently you are unaware what it means.....

Then we will discuss species change since you thought it irrelevant before. I asked you to prove it was transitional, yet you offered nothing it was transitional between.....

 

[Subduction Zone]

Because you imagine an extinct creature evolved into something else before it went extinct.

No imagination necessary. Why do you keep making accusations that you cannot support.

I’ll ask you the same question your co conspirator can’t answer.

And more of the same. I will answer this once with the warning that rudely asked questions do not need to be answered.

Given the great variety we see in dogs, what makes you think it is transitional to anything and not just a different breed of bird?

However, it was not the only bird of the time. Very recently, another bird of almost the same age was discovered in northeastern China, and named Confuciusornis Confuciusornis resembles Archaeopteryx in having wing claws, but unlike Archaeopteryx and like modern birds, Confuciusornis lacked teeth.

So why isn’t Confuciusornis the transitional since like modern birds it lacks teeth?

Or is it you haven’t a clue really so any will do as long as we call them transitional and not merely different breeds of the same species?????

Let me.answer by stating that you just made it obvious that you do not know what transitional means. A transitional fossil has traits of both older fossils and younger apparently related fossils. This is a fact that you cannot deny. For example if has the teeth and tail of a dinosaur, but feathers and wings of a modern bird. It appears that you are making the error of assuming that transitional means ancestral. That is not necessarily the case. Let's look at your family. Your uncle could be said to be transitional between you and your grandfather. He will have traits from his father, your grandfather, that you lack, and traits that you have,but your grandfather does not have except those are from your grandmother and not from random mutations and natural selection.

And if you understood the concept of scientific evidence you would know why there is endless scientific evidence for evolution and none for creationism.

 

[Subduction Zone]

SZ is the one spamming junk not even on the topic we were discussing.

But it seems I got to include you now too...

When you got something scientific to add let me know. Otherwise you are just wasting my time.

That is not true. I have told you what you need to do to get evidence and yet you run away from a more than reasonable offer. That means that if anyone is spamming that you are the guilty party.

 

[ChristineM]

Who cares? The bone structure of the wolf is denser than the Terrier, doesn’t make the wolf an evolutionary transitional to anything.

If Cro-Magnon is not a separate species then it is merely a variety within the species and isn’t transitional to anything. Anymore than the wolf is transitional to the Terrier...... merely just a different breed or race of human.

It’s your distorted thinking and ignoring that variety within the species that leads you to other views.

Unlike the wolf the Cro-Magnon just happened to go extinct, so is unable to defend itself against your false accusations against it.



You got ignoring science is what you got. You call birds mating right in front of your face separate species. Genetics that told you they were the same species, but that was ignored.

You got a bait and switch where you talk about DNA relationship testing (tests proven in a court of law) then switch it with a test that randomly matches parts of one to random parts of another, after you cut out 13% of one and 23% of the other. Not even similar to the test proven to show relationship.

Don’t try that bait and switch with me..... it just makes you look foolish not even understanding it isn’t even similar to the test proven to show relationship. But hey, without those algorithms finding random matches you wouldn’t be able to say they were similar. So I understand, I really do.....


Like this was relevant to our discussion????

As I said, closing in on the last line of defense. Personal insults. Should be coming anytime now....Oh look, a tentative attempt already. Lol, you evolutionists just crack me up....

All species are transitional. Cro magnon was the stage before humans of today and after the proto humans that came before them

A wolf and terrier are different breeds, cro magnon was not

No it is scientific evidence that leads me to my view and if you contravene rule 1 again i will report you.

No cro magnon didnt go extinct, again you show ignorance of the subject, they evolved into humans of today.


What the hell are you rabbiting about birds mating?

Dna does not lie, ask any inmate on death row convicted on DNA evidence about that one.

Please provide citation for your 13% and 23%figure

What do you understand? God dun it wiv god magic coz it says so in a bronze age book? Sheesh and i bet you have a flu jab every year

Perfectly relevant fact and you know it

To keep up with your personal insults from your very first post i would have to go some.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I know exactly what it means.

Transitional forms

“Fossils or organisms that show the intermediate states between an ancestral form and that of its descendants are referred to as transitional forms.”

So what is the ancestral form of cro-magnon since we are it’s descendants?????

Apparently you are unaware what it means.....

Then we will discuss species change since you thought it irrelevant before. I asked you to prove it was transitional, yet you offered nothing it was transitional between.....

Homo erectus.

By the way, science does not "prove" anything in the mathematical sense. You should be asking for evidence.