Creationists: "Kind" = Species; species that evolve.

[Primordial Annihilator]

Chimpanzees according to the molecular clock are descended from Homo ancestors...

The book The Last Chimpanzee takes a good look into this theory.

 

[painted wolf]

Chimpanzees according to the molecular clock are descended from Homo ancestors...

The book The Last Chimpanzee takes a good look into this theory.

I think you may be confusing hominoid/hominid with Homo. Homo doesn't show up until a few million years after the chimp/human split.

The last shared common ancestor with chimps would have been more like Ardipithecus or Orrorin than Homo.

I can't seem to find any book called "The Last Chimpanzee" do you know who wrote it or can you give us a link to a review?

wa:do

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

I think you may be confusing hominoid/hominid with Homo. Homo doesn't show up until a few million years after the chimp/human split.

The last shared common ancestor with chimps would have been more like Ardipithecus or Orrorin than Homo.

I can't seem to find any book called "The Last Chimpanzee" do you know who wrote it or can you give us a link to a review?

wa:do

The Monkey Puzzle and the First Chimpanzee (lol) by John Gribbin and Jeremy Cherfas also discusses the same theory.
There is considerable molecular evidence to support this.

 

[David M]

I am a bit confused, the old memory not what it used to was, I meant the Third Chimpanzee by Jared Diamond which supports the unorthodox notion that gorillas and chimps descended from a human like ancestor.

No he doesn't propose that the ancestors of gorillas and chimps was human like.

Also The Monkey Puzzle and the First Chimpanzee (lol) by John Gribbin and Jeremy Cherfas also discusses the same theory.
There is considerable molecular evidence to support this.

No there isn't.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

No he doesn't propose that the ancestors of gorillas and chimps was human like.

''In their earlier book The Monkey Puzzle (1982) John Gribbin and Jeremy Cherfas suggested that gorillas and chimpanzees are descended from human-like ancestors, an idea by no means as crazy as it might seem at first sight. The essential observation is that there are two well attested fossil species, Australopithecus robustus and Australopithecus gracilis, with no identifiable descendants, and two modern species, the gorilla and the chimpanzee, with no identifiable ancestors. The two fossil species appear to have been well on the way towards evolving human-like characteristics, and the two modern species are superficially no more human-like than, say, the orang utan. Traditional zoologists regarded humanity as the pinnacle of evolutionary achievement, and from that perspective it seemed difficult to imagine why two species well on the way towards humanity should have reversed direction and become more like their ancestors. However, all surviving species are well adapted and none is more "evolved" than any other, and if drastic climatic changes, such as those that marked the beginning of the Pleistocene epoch 3 million years ago, cause an advantage direction of change to become disadvantageous there is no reason to exclude the reappearance of ancestral characteristics.''

Amazon - The First Chimpanzee



Well them guys anyway..

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

And yes there is...LOL

Yes forget Jared Diamond...not literally...great author.

 

[painted wolf]

I am a bit confused, the old memory not what it used to was, I meant the Third Chimpanzee by Jared Diamond which supports the unorthodox notion that gorillas and chimps descended from a human like ancestor.
Also The Monkey Puzzle and the First Chimpanzee (lol) by John Gribbin and Jeremy Cherfas also discusses the same theory.
There is considerable molecular evidence to support this.

Thanks for clearing that up!
There is a considerable difference between "human like" and the genus Homo. But I can understand the confusion.

Yes, the earliest apes and the last shared common ancestor with chimps and humans, moved upright in the trees, more orangs and Gibbons, than either gorillas or chimps do.
Thus they were more like us than them... gorillas and chimps indignantly evolved knuckle walking during their evolution away from their respective shared ancestors with us. There is a common misconseption that Chimps are "more primitive" than we are, or that they are supposed to be our ancestors. The truth is, they as modern as we are and had their own evolutionary path from our last shared ancestor.

The fun thing is this means we were essentially pre-adapted for bipedal walking.

wa:do

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Thanks for clearing that up!
The fun thing is this means we were essentially pre-adapted for bipedal walking.

I suspect as they discuss in their books (The monkey puzzle and the First chimpanzee) that comes mainly from brachiation through trees as great apes do.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

There is a considerable difference between "human like" and the genus Homo. But I can understand the confusion.

The difference is relative...to the degree of genetic deviation...but yeah...in classical terms absolutely.

 

[painted wolf]

The difference is relative...to the degree of genetic deviation...but yeah...in classical terms absolutely.

Also morphology... especially in brain size and skull shape.

Though if you compare any two critters of the same class the differences are only relative. Like the difference between a cat and a dog or a cow and a whale.

What is really cool is Orangs actually 'walk' along branches more than they use brachiation.

wa:do

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Also morphology... especially in brain size and skull shape.
What is really cool is Orangs actually 'walk' along branches more than they use brachiation.

wa:do

I thought that tree limb walking was part of brachiation.
Did not realise it meant just arm swinging.

 

[painted wolf]

I thought that tree limb walking was part of brachiation.
Did not realise it meant just arm swinging.

s'cool... there is a lot of terminology to wrap your head around in biology in general and evolution in particular.

It doesn't help that a lot of terms are also used in "everyday speech" and have very different meanings from the biological terms.

wa:do

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

s'cool... there is a lot of terminology to wrap your head around in biology in general and evolution in particular.

I am sure there is..