Crediting God

[nazz]

I don’t think GOD intervenes directly in any events. However, I believe there are a myriad of beings above the physical level that can intercede on one’s behalf.

I don't understand the distinction you are making. Can you elaborate?

Why sometimes and not always? It appears random to us but there are a multitude of reasons we can’t see from the physical level (the past history of the soul, earnestness of his prayers, karmic conditions, etc.).

perhaps

 

[FearGod]

The curious part is that oftentimes, there's a ludicrous and apparently arbitrary double standard- when things go well, all credit goes to God; good results are not due to anything we've done... But when things go wrong, as in any of the countless instances of suffering and evil in the world (as in the problem of evil), the blame does not fall on God, but on us. God gets credit for all the good things that happen, and none of the bad things- a pretty nice gig, really...

God is involved in both bad and good.

In case of facing bad things such as tragedies we should be patients and for good things we should thank God,that is the believe in Islam for fate whether being good or bad.

 

[George-ananda]

I don't understand the distinction you are making. Can you elaborate?

In my non-dual Advaita philosophy, God is everything (including us) and we are working to realize that and be as One. So to talk of God as an active participant as some do in dualistic (God and creation are separate) Abrahamic traditions doesn't really make sense to a non-dualist.

But I was trying to say that doesn't mean that so-called miracles and intercessions don't occur. There are a myriad of above-human beings on super-physical planes/realms that can on occasion intercede in some affair.

 

[nazz]

The curious part is that oftentimes, there's a ludicrous and apparently arbitrary double standard- when things go well, all credit goes to God; good results are not due to anything we've done... But when things go wrong, as in any of the countless instances of suffering and evil in the world (as in the problem of evil), the blame does not fall on God, but on us. God gets credit for all the good things that happen, and none of the bad things- a pretty nice gig, really...

I think that is primarily due to the fact that people don't usually pray for bad things to happen.

 

[1137]

In my non-dual Advaita philosophy, God is everything (including us) and we are working to realize that and be as One. So to talk of God as an active participant as some do in dualistic (God and creation are separate) Abrahamic traditions doesn't really make sense to a non-dualist.

But I was trying to say that doesn't mean that so-called miracles and intercessions don't occur. There are a myriad of above-human beings on super-physical planes/realms that can on occasion intercede in some affair.

When has this happened?

 

[Enai de a lukal]

I think that is primarily due to the fact that people don't usually pray for bad things to happen.

That's not really relevant.

 

[George-ananda]

When has this happened?

Millions of times in the course of human existence.

Like a sense of peace, love, healing energies influenced by higher beings.

 

[ChristineES]

Are you really thinking that he really thinks his efforts had nothing to do with it? I don't.

I don't either.

 

[1137]

Millions of times in the course of human existence.

Like a sense of peace, love, healing energies influenced by higher beings.

Can you give a specific example as well as reasons why the example cannot be explained naturally?

 

[KrsnaDasa]

I recently had a discussion with someone who is currently going through some financial difficulties. He had been on unemployment for a month. During that month, he pounded the pavements for work, and has also hit the books with a relish, in order to be able to obtain higher certification to make him more marketable. He called all his creditors, and worked out a solution so he wouldn't go bankrupt or lose his home. And, he prayed that God would help him out.

He recently got a job.

He credits God for his ability to stay afloat. God miraculously worked things out so he didn't go bankrupt. God found him this job.

And I just want to shake him and be like, "Dude! God didn't do that. YOU did. YOU are the one who worked so hard to find a job. YOU were the one who was proactive and worked out your finances. YOU are the one that is trying to better yourself."

This sort of thing really irritates me. I understand being thankful. But I do not understand this sort of abject humility or dependency or whatever, that makes believers think that they are not responsible for their success, that they themselves did not earn what they have gotten.

I find it unhealthy. What are your thoughts?

Firstly, it creates humility in people. Rather be around people like him then egotistical people blabbering about at how amazing they are and how they owe no one nuthin. (though that is an extreme example, I know people like that and they seem to be the least happy in life and most unhealthy)

And I have a hard time labeling it as "unhealthy". If the person is happy with their life, and their beliefs and they arnt harming anyone, I'd say have at it. My mom used to see a psychiatrist a while back and she told him that she felt like God helped her through her crises, he didnt call her out and say it was unhealthy.

 

[George-ananda]

Can you give a specific example as well as reasons why the example cannot be explained naturally?

No, I won't bother again because anecdotal events can not be 'proved' so an example will just result in an endless discussion with skeptics.

One must step back and form his view of the universe considering all related subjects and arguments and form his own opinion. One derivative of my view of the universe is that there are a myriad of non-physical beings and some on occasion intervene in human affairs.

 

[1137]

No, I won't bother again because anecdotal events can not be 'proved' so an example will just result in an endless discussion with skeptics.

One must step back and form his view of the universe considering all related subjects and arguments and form his own opinion. One derivative of my view of the universe is that there are a myriad of non-physical beings and some on occasion intervene in human affairs.

Thought not.

 

[Indian Iconoclast]

I recently had a discussion with someone who is currently going through some financial difficulties. He had been on unemployment for a month. During that month, he pounded the pavements for work, and has also hit the books with a relish, in order to be able to obtain higher certification to make him more marketable. He called all his creditors, and worked out a solution so he wouldn't go bankrupt or lose his home. And, he prayed that God would help him out.

He recently got a job.

He credits God for his ability to stay afloat. God miraculously worked things out so he didn't go bankrupt. God found him this job.

And I just want to shake him and be like, "Dude! God didn't do that. YOU did. YOU are the one who worked so hard to find a job. YOU were the one who was proactive and worked out your finances. YOU are the one that is trying to better yourself."

This sort of thing really irritates me. I understand being thankful. But I do not understand this sort of abject humility or dependency or whatever, that makes believers think that they are not responsible for their success, that they themselves did not earn what they have gotten.

I find it unhealthy. What are your thoughts?

The thought of 'SOMEONE UP THERE LOVES ME' and helps me in my hard times has been resident in the human's mind since the earliest of his wild and later civilized lifestyle. It has given him mental succor and created individual and collective faith and religion, which is a line of thinking that defies normal logic.

However a person's strife and success with his courage, will power and mental control (human virtues) is to be appreciated and inspired by. My favorite English poem is the 'A Psalm of Life' by the 19th century American master Henry Wadsworth Longfellow. That one poem opens the secrets of human courage and success and inspires every reader. It rather shakes him up to an awakening for immediate action against all his odds. But then Alexander Pope's "Father of all, in every land, in every clime adored!" makes you feel that you in your resolve and prowess are not alone and there exists your unknown helper who always wants you to progress against all odds.

Thus my brother Falvlun, that thought of someone up there reaching out to us with his unseen helping hand, is not unhealthy or repulsive. It is in the very genes of human nature. Have you seen a cow or a cat reminiscing and weeping in the thought of its unseen creator? A man does. You may say that your pet dog out of its love for you and your love and care for it, can wail in your absence and remembrance, but that is because he has seen and known you as his caring master. On the other hand a man keeps silently weeping in love for his unseen God because he is capable of doing so without any reason or logic!:yes:

 

[nazz]

That's not really relevant.

Why not?

 

[nazz]

In my non-dual Advaita philosophy, God is everything (including us) and we are working to realize that and be as One. So to talk of God as an active participant as some do in dualistic (God and creation are separate) Abrahamic traditions doesn't really make sense to a non-dualist.

But I was trying to say that doesn't mean that so-called miracles and intercessions don't occur. There are a myriad of above-human beings on super-physical planes/realms that can on occasion intercede in some affair.

Ah, okay. Thanks.

 

[Whiterain]

People normally praise God when something good happens in their life. Whether or not God made the action personally is another story, there are many factors involved.

 

[Me Myself]

My problem is that we do know for a fact that he's the one who put in effort to get him to this point. Why credit someone who might have helped, without any indication of such, and ignore the effort that you actually put into it? It's like Inspector Gadget getting all the credit for solving the case, when it was really Penny and Brain getting the job done all along.

I think it's unhealthy because it ignores, or downplays, the person's very real capabilities. It makes that person think that they had nothing to do with their success, that they are just useless lumps without God. I mean, what's the point of life anyway, if God just does everything?

Did the person presented other things you found as indicators that he thought what he did had NOTHING to do with his new job?

The way I see it, when people do this, they are jusst ascribing that things are at least partially beyond their reach which is not in the most remote an inaccurate thought.

Now, the degree of control each person has on each situation will be different. Siply thanking God, IMHO doesnt mean they think their work had nothing to do about it.

 

[SageTree]

It's a stairway to heaven, not an escalator.....
But there is still the upward path we can take.

Giving thanks to God is great, I think.
And it goes without saying that we are a part of that.

Think emptying of the ego, kind of practice.
We probably already give our self a lot of credit.

Shift the focus.

Our next breath doesn't come from our volition.
But we can enjoy the air in our lungs.

 

[Silver Wolf]

I recently had a discussion with someone who is currently going through some financial difficulties. He had been on unemployment for a month. During that month, he pounded the pavements for work, and has also hit the books with a relish, in order to be able to obtain higher certification to make him more marketable. He called all his creditors, and worked out a solution so he wouldn't go bankrupt or lose his home. And, he prayed that God would help him out.

He recently got a job.

He credits God for his ability to stay afloat. God miraculously worked things out so he didn't go bankrupt. God found him this job.

And I just want to shake him and be like, "Dude! God didn't do that. YOU did. YOU are the one who worked so hard to find a job. YOU were the one who was proactive and worked out your finances. YOU are the one that is trying to better yourself."

This sort of thing really irritates me. I understand being thankful. But I do not understand this sort of abject humility or dependency or whatever, that makes believers think that they are not responsible for their success, that they themselves did not earn what they have gotten.

I find it unhealthy. What are your thoughts?

While I admit he should acknowledge that it is also through his own hard-work, he is Aldo admitting that it was God that gave him the strength to achieve that.

A man once shouted to God. "God! Why won't you let me win the lottery? How many times have I prayed to you!?"
Suddenly, a voice rang out through the heavens. "Tim, you got to meet me halfway here. Buy a ticket."

If you want something, you have to meet God half-way. Do the work, don't just sit on your ****, buy that ticket. Nobody gets anywhere by sitting on the couch watching TV, with God's help or not.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I recently had a discussion with someone who is currently going through some financial difficulties. He had been on unemployment for a month. During that month, he pounded the pavements for work, and has also hit the books with a relish, in order to be able to obtain higher certification to make him more marketable. He called all his creditors, and worked out a solution so he wouldn't go bankrupt or lose his home. And, he prayed that God would help him out.

He recently got a job.

He credits God for his ability to stay afloat. God miraculously worked things out so he didn't go bankrupt. God found him this job.

And I just want to shake him and be like, "Dude! God didn't do that. YOU did. YOU are the one who worked so hard to find a job. YOU were the one who was proactive and worked out your finances. YOU are the one that is trying to better yourself."

This sort of thing really irritates me. I understand being thankful. But I do not understand this sort of abject humility or dependency or whatever, that makes believers think that they are not responsible for their success, that they themselves did not earn what they have gotten.

I find it unhealthy. What are your thoughts?

In practice, I suspect that most such statements regarding god are mostly affectation. People do it out of habit, expectation, and consistency, but I doubt there is much sincere and conscious belief that god was behind their good fortune. People who really believe that god will hear their prayers and help them out wouldn't feel the need to take so many proactive measures to improve their situation.