Critical Thinking & General Religious Studies

[kejos]

Critical thinking would be a fine thing to teach. but combining it with religion
would never fly, since the first would be seen as a major threat to the other.

For what reason?

 

[Revoltingest]

For what reason?

Critical thought would challenge the premises, reasoning, & evidence of every religion.
Believers would not want schools to subject their faith to such scrutiny, for fear that their
kid would abandon it.

 

[kejos]

Critical thought would challenge the premises, reasoning, & evidence of every religion.
Believers would not want schools their faith subject to such scrutiny, for fear that their
kid would abandon it.

Can this pov be supported by data or argument?

 

[M O N S T E R]

Critical thought would challenge the premises, reasoning, & evidence of every religion.
Believers would not want schools their faith subject to such scrutiny, for fear that their
kid would abandon it.

Ding. Ding. Ding. (IMO)

 

[Revoltingest]

Can this pov be supported by data or argument?

Not by me. It's just an opinion based upon discussions with believers I know.

 

[kejos]

Not by me. It's just an opinion based upon discussions with believers I know.

A feasible, reasonable conclusion, in the USA, at least. But it may be that believers with whom you have had little or no contact would have no qualms about open discussion of faith, and may even welcome it.

'If the USA was really to grasp the nettle, and engage its youth in honest, informed discussion, organised religion of all sorts, mainstream and cultic, would suffer and go into decline, imv- although the trend is already there.

Unorganised religion would not suffer, imv.'

 

[tarasan]

You said, "I would think that it would prospure for sure most athiests arguements now a days are I feel woefully ignorant of what the religions are and what they stand for". How do you propose those "misunderstandings" to be eradicated without presenting the "misunderstandings" in the first place?

Is it your position that middle schoolers are old enough to be indoctrinated into a religion? If so, why are they too young for Religious Studies and Critical Thinking courses?

you didnt listen to what i was saying, I was saying that there is alot of ground to cover when it comes to religions, heck even take the top five and it would be hard to do it justice, so perhaps it should be done through multiple years is that what your suggesting? with perhaps a critical thinking course taking up the first year and religious studies drawn up afterwards?

unless your a hyper christian fundie who home schools his kids its very hard to indoctrinate kids, what with 6 hours of secular school every day as well as other secular activities like scouts etc. youll find that almost no Christian kids show signs of indoctrination, mostly because most of the young people in the churhc now a days are converts.

 

[tarasan]

Critical thought would challenge the premises, reasoning, & evidence of every religion.
Believers would not want schools to subject their faith to such scrutiny, for fear that their
kid would abandon it.

kids are already abandoning it, 85 percent of all kids who are born in the church leave it most of the teenagers that are in the church nowdays are converts,

and that statistic is a few years old no telling what it is now XD

personnally I think getting issues out there rather than having hte kids think about it on their own would really help/ strenghten their faith.

 

[Revoltingest]

kids are already abandoning it, 85 percent of all kids who are born in the church leave it most of the teenagers that are in the church nowdays are converts, and that statistic is a few years old no telling what it is now XD
personnally I think getting issues out there rather than having hte kids think about it on their own would really help/ strenghten their faith.

I'm not saying arguing against teaching critical thought or about the effects it would have.
I'm simply saying that fundies would strongly object to its being used to teach about religion.

 

[tarasan]

I'm not saying arguing against teaching critical thought or about the effects it would have.
I'm simply saying that fundies would strongly object to its being used to teach about religion.

yeah fundies are a strong breed, we dont have alot fo them over in europe and thank goodness!! most of us are fairly moderate here, and I would think that learning basic critical thinking skills would be great!! it would help in a vairety of ways not just when it comes to religion.

also in UK we actually have religious studies were we find out about our own and others religions. ive also heard on of the girls that i lead at a youth group saying that she has done a half a level in critical thinking ( she says its easy).

U americans dont do religious studies in Schools?

 

[Revoltingest]

Btw, I have no problem with fundies. Many are friends & fine people. Their religion just isn't significant to me.

 

[tarasan]

Btw, I have no problem with fundies. Many are friends & fine people. Their religion just isn't significant to me.

ok thats fine sorry I overstepped the mark.

 

[Skwim]

Btw, I have no problem with fundies. Many are friends & fine people. Their religion just isn't significant to me.

I agree up to the point where they attempt to impose their beliefs onto secular spheres of society.

 

[kejos]

I agree up to the point where they attempt to impose their beliefs onto secular spheres of society.

Americans consume an enormous proportion per capita of the world's wealth. The downside is that they must put up with fundamentalism.

 

[Revoltingest]

I agree up to the point where they attempt to impose their beliefs onto secular spheres of society.

But that is some fundies, not all. Many of them oppose theocratization because
they know that it will likely be some other religion or denomination to rule over them.
It makes sense to me.

 

[M O N S T E R]

you didnt listen to what i was saying, I was saying that there is alot of ground to cover when it comes to religions, heck even take the top five and it would be hard to do it justice, so perhaps it should be done through multiple years is that what your suggesting? with perhaps a critical thinking course taking up the first year and religious studies drawn up afterwards?

Sounds good to me. It's just a matter of wether or not our education system deems this type of curriculum a priority.

unless your a hyper christian fundie who home schools his kids its very hard to indoctrinate kids, what with 6 hours of secular school every day as well as other secular activities like scouts etc. youll find that almost no Christian kids show signs of indoctrination, mostly because most of the young people in the churhc now a days are converts.

Sounds absurd to me. Are you suggesting that kids become Christians without outside influences? That they seek it (Christianity) out and make an informed decision to become a BELIEVER all by themselves? Please. How exactly do kids "show signs of indoctrination"? Also, are you not aware that the scouts are one of the least secular organizations available to kids? Boy Scouts of America

M O N S T E R

 

[kejos]

But that is some fundies, not all. Many of them oppose theocratization because
they know that it will likely be some other religion or denomination to rule over them.
It makes sense to me.

I don't find that entirely convincing. Theologically, 'theocratization' is actually human rules dressed up as those of a deity- God, Allah, whatever. Now fundamentalists don't really care, imv, which set of rules is used- though they may understandably blench at sharia- as long as some set of rules is used, backed by a deity who carries at least some street cred.- the more the better.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't find that entirely convincing. Theologically, 'theocratization' is actually human rules dressed up as those of a deity- God, Allah, whatever. Now fundamentalists don't really care, imv, which set of rules is used- though they may understandably blench at sharia- as long as some set of rules is used, backed by a deity who carries at least some street cred.- the more the better.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I just know fundies who would object to the
critical thought vs religion curriculum, & I know fundies who like a secular government.

 

[kejos]

I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

That's just as well, then.

I just know fundies who would object to the
critical thought vs religion curriculum, & I know fundies who like a secular government.

Of course, but I don't think that fear of a 'theocracy' not of their own sort is behind that preference.

 

[tarasan]

Sounds good to me. It's just a matter of wether or not our education system deems this type of curriculum a priority.

well i believe it should be.

Sounds absurd to me. Are you suggesting that kids become Christians without outside influences?

ok so let me get this striaght if my friends says ohhh Matt you should try coffee its real good then I go and try coffee like it and become a coffee drink, he indoctirnated me?

this sounds absurd..... if some says for me to go along ot something I do then i believe it of my own accord Im not being indoctrinated..... if that were teh case everything that we decided would be indoctrination...

That they seek it (Christianity) out and make an informed decision to become a BELIEVER all by themselves?

people do seek God you are aware of that right? and this may disturb you a bit but some people actually do think out their faith......

Please. How exactly do kids "show signs of indoctrination"? Also, are you not aware that the scouts are one of the least secular organizations available to kids? Boy Scouts of America

M O N S T E R

forgive me I was talking about it with a northern Ireland view all they do is recite a prayer really fast at the end thats all the God in our scouts.... the rest is making stuff, swearing, and if your in venturers drinking alot on summer camps.