Hi Danisty,
Peace. I'd like to reply in detail to your post just so that I can feel like we've heard each other. I feel like I've heard you, and I'd like for you to hear me.
Ðanisty said:
Satan isn't really relevent to Luciferianism.
This is what I am referring to. If I were to just read the Bible from my Christian perspective and never speak to a Luciferian or read what Luciferianism is really all about, I would not be informed and my opinion that Luciferianism worships Satan and is evil (BTW, I do not think this at all, I'm just using it as an example) would not be valid. I would not know what I'm talking about. You can't form a valid opinion if you don't have all the information. Sure, you can have an opinion, but it would not be based in the facts so it would not be valid.
This thread is about criticizing a religion, not about criticizing Scripture. That's where I am coming from.
I think you're forgetting why I posted in the first place. What I was responding to was specifically about the bible. I believe a person can read the bible by itself and make an informed (and thus valid) opinion of Christianity.
And this is where I disagree. Christianity does not equal
just the Bible, no matter how much you've read and studied it, research it's history and learned the original languages. All of that is great for understanding the Bible, but it is not going to give you the whole picture for understanding Christianity. Christianity = Bible + God + Jesus + lots of other varying doctrines, traditions and theology. You
should read the Bible as part of understanding Christianity, but reading the Bible alone does not give you all you need to know about Christianity.
My problem though was that it was suggested that it might be preferable for people to learn about Christianity from someone else instead of through reading the bible.
Reading the Bible is part of it. But if you want to know about Christianity you will need to find out more, either by talking to people or finding other resources of information about Christianity. You can read about it as there is much written, you can take a religious studies course or speak to a non-Christian professor of religious studies, or you can ask the people who practice that religion as we do here at RF.
I hope you do not think I suggested that it is preferable for a person to not read the Bible, because I don't beleive that at all. But that's just a start.
I think this breeds some ignorance. Some people think they know what the bible says, but they don't.
Well, I agree. If you have never read it yourself then you don't know for sure what it says.
They end up knowing what other people tell them the bible says and those people may or may not see things that way you would.
Very true.
I think people should read the bible without taking other people's opinions into account.
I think this is impossible. But, even if it were possible and a person created a religion based upon a
totally independent reading of the Bible, I highly doubt that religion would look anything at all like Christianity or Luciferianism.
They should see for themselves what it says and then decide for themselves what it means.
Yes, that's a good idea. But their views are going to be very very influenced by what they have already learned and what they
want to believe about the Bible and Christianity.
How else are you going to know what you really believe?
Excellent point. I think it comes down to choosing what you trust.
The points I've been making are specifically about the bible...that's what I've been addressing. I think you've been addressing something more complex than that.
Yes, I think we are at missing each other to some extent. I was addressing the idea in the OP about criticizing Christianity, not just forming an opinion about the Bible.
Once Christianity was no longer tied to the Orthodox/Catholic authority of tradition, there was nothing to stop it from fragmenting into a million different flavors of Christianity, each based upon independent interpretations of the Bible.
Please know that I am not criticizing this fact...just observing it. It's a catch 22: Orthodox are criticized for not independently reading the Bible, and everyone else is criticized for splintering into a lot of different denominations because they read the Bible independently.
When I'm talking about forming an opinion on something, I'm talking about deciding whether it's good, bad, funny, sad, etc. I'm not talking about telling people what they believe (as you are implying above with your Satan question).
But forming a criticism about a religion is forming an opinion about what people beleive. Forming an opinion about a Book, what it says, is different and in that case I agree with everything you said.
For instance, it is my opinion that Christianity is naive.
And I'm sure you know enough about Christianity to form this opinion. <---(added) this is not a sarcastic remark! I say this because I recall you did grow up in a Christian tradition so you know what you are talking about. In general, I hope you read nothing I've written as sarcastic because that is not at all where I am coming from. I think perhaps we just don't know each other very well.
I'm not telling you what you believe.
Thank you.
You obviously believe it's enlightened.
Well, we've never talked about what I believe so you could not know this. There is no way I would make the blanket statement that Christianity is enlightened.
You can tell me over and over again that it is your opinion that Lucifer is evil.
Well, we've never talked about this either so you don't know that this is my opinion. We can talk about it some time which I would find very interesting. Let me assure you for now that based upon what little I know about Luciferianism, I don't think it is 'evil.'
That's fine and it's a valid opinion.
Well, it might be an opinion, but it would not be fine, informed, or valid.
You can't, however, tell me that I believe Lucifer is evil.
Again, just to be clear, I never did. If I wanted to know what you believe I'd need to ask you. I could not criticize Luciferianism just based upon my own reading of the Bible.
Does this clear things up at all?
Yes, I think so. I hope sometime we can talk to each other about what we believe.
luna
