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Cross or Upright Stake

cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
No, you do not "know" that. If you have only the Bible that is merely a belief.
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it bothers you that i know?? that many of us know ?? well thats to bad for you . this Jesus the christ that you despise .he has been given the power and authority to resurrect the ones he wants to . no ,it has not happened yet . there are a few things in prophecy that first must happen .
enjoy the life you now have ,its likely the only one you get
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
cataway said:
it bothers you that i know?? that many of us know ?? well thats to bad for you . this Jesus the christ that you despise .he has been given the power and authority to resurrect the ones he wants to . no ,it has not happened yet . there are a few things in prophecy that first must happen .
enjoy the life you now have ,its likely the only one you get
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No, you keep demonstrating that you do not know. You only keep demonstrating that all that you have is mere belief. If xxx you "knew" you could properly support your claims.
 
cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
Wow, no , you believe. I granted that. Belief is not knowledge. Mere believe is wrong an amazing percentage of the time. That is what you have. You do not have knowledge.
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you are looking for the scientific method? and scientist cant believe in Jesus or anything that happened to Jesus ?
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
cataway said:
you are looking for the scientific method? and scientist cant believe in Jesus or anything that happened to Jesus ?
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No. Why assume that? Once again, knowledge is demonstrable. One can properly justify one's claims with knowledge. You have only demonstrated belief. You have failed at justifying your claims.
 
blü 2

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
cataway said:
you are looking for the scientific method? and scientist cant believe in Jesus or anything that happened to Jesus ?
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There is no conclusive evidence for an historical Jesus, just the balance of probabilities. For a start, none of the NT authors ever met an historical Jesus, and the miracle claims and other supernatural elements are innately not credible. (Perhaps ironically, the evidence for the resurrection is of particularly abysmal standard just of itself.)

These days I'm inclined to think that the two strongest pieces of evidence for an historical Jesus are:

─ that none of the early opponents of Christianity ever claimed there was no such real person as Jesus (a point made by Bart Ehrman, among his various arguments for an historical Jesus), and

─ in all four gospels, Jesus fights with or is aggressive towards his mother and family, and here we might invoke the criterion of embarrassment, that is, it's not the sort of thing you'd invent if you were inventing a hero from scratch.

But I don't insist that's conclusive.
 
cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
blü 2 said:
There is no conclusive evidence for an historical Jesus, just the balance of probabilities. For a start, none of the NT authors ever met an historical Jesus, and the miracle claims and other supernatural elements are innately not credible. (Perhaps ironically, the evidence for the resurrection is of particularly abysmal standard just of itself.)

These days I'm inclined to think that the two strongest pieces of evidence for an historical Jesus are:

─ that none of the early opponents of Christianity ever claimed there was no such real person as Jesus (a point made by Bart Ehrman, among his various arguments for an historical Jesus), and

─ in all four gospels, Jesus fights with or is aggressive towards his mother and family, and here we might invoke the criterion of embarrassment, that is, it's not the sort of thing you'd invent if you were inventing a hero from scratch.

But I don't insist that's conclusive.
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you are of the antichrist
 
blü 2

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
cataway said:
you are of the antichrist
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That doesn't sound like a reasoned or informed reply to my post.

Nor is it helpful. For instance, you yourself are of the antiAllah, the antiKrishna, the antiGreat Spirit, and much more.
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
cataway said:
yes i know he was taken down .that's not the question . i am wondering about the mechanics of it. my self i have built buildings using pole constriction .tipicly called pole barns, also used in building decks. i have stood poles and ,removed poles for what ever reason ,dodo happens.
did it with out machinery.
it was in the Law that the one hung-up was not to remain there all night . i know how to remove a pole from the hole its plated in .i should like to think they back then would also know . perhaps it was such common knowledge it seamed irrelevant . there are no empty standing execution poles left standing and by the way no crosses either. things do get lost to history ,i am wondering if the trick to pulling a pole from the ground was also lost.
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I can only imagine that the Roman soldiers managed to take those nailed to the stake down. Obviously the Bible does not give details as to how exactly a convicted person was put up or taken off. The answer is in reference to your precise question: I don't know now. Maybe there is an explanation somewhere, but at any rate it doesn't seem like a nice job. I shudder to think about it. Exactly how --? I don't know now.
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
cataway said:
yes i know he was taken down .that's not the question . i am wondering about the mechanics of it. my self i have built buildings using pole constriction .tipicly called pole barns, also used in building decks. i have stood poles and ,removed poles for what ever reason ,dodo happens.
did it with out machinery.
it was in the Law that the one hung-up was not to remain there all night . i know how to remove a pole from the hole its plated in .i should like to think they back then would also know . perhaps it was such common knowledge it seamed irrelevant . there are no empty standing execution poles left standing and by the way no crosses either. things do get lost to history ,i am wondering if the trick to pulling a pole from the ground was also lost.
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Also the point is in the translation I believe. We know he dragged a stake. Taken over by Simeon. Who knows? Maybe they had holes in the ground ready. Because--as I think about it--either way--stake or crossbar--they had to put a convicted person up and take him down or off. Somehow.
 
cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
removing a nail is far harder that putting one in.and then to remove a nail that firsts go's through flesh , hands an feet , means the head of the nail is away from a point were a fulcrum could be used .try that on a ladder you would quickly realize that's not the way it was done. if it were a pole or a pole with cross member it would of been laid down to remove the dead person .
perhaps if the one being hung up was tied ,as with rope or leather straps , then the dead person could be taken down with out laying the pole or pole with cross member down . it would just be as simple as cutting the bindings with a knife . that's the only way a cross would remain standing . even so it would of been laid down to use again . we are told Jesus was nailed to the wood.
no ,Jesus did not die on a cross.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
cataway said:
removing a nail is far harder that putting one in.and then to remove a nail that firsts go's through flesh , hands an feet , means the head of the nail is away from a point were a fulcrum could be used .try that on a ladder you would quickly realize that's not the way it was done. if it were a pole or a pole with cross member it would of been laid down to remove the dead person .
perhaps if the one being hung up was tied ,as with rope or leather straps , then the dead person could be taken down with out laying the pole or pole with cross member down . it would just be as simple as cutting the bindings with a knife . that's the only way a cross would remain standing . even so it would of been laid down to use again . we are told Jesus was nailed to the wood.
no ,Jesus did not die on a cross.
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If you understood Roman Crucifixion taking bodies down from crosses was almost never a problem.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
cataway said:
likely the only reason for rome was to put another person up on it
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Yup. They did not worry about taking them down. Leaving them up was part of the punishment. Jesus was probably crucified. And left up there. In less than a week the body was no longer recognizable.
 
cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
Yup. They did not worry about taking them down. Leaving them up was part of the punishment. Jesus was probably crucified. And left up there. In less than a week the body was no longer recognizable.
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its apparent you have not read what the bible does say about the matter. the body of Jesus was not left hanging ,even after sun down.the same is true of the other two hung up that day. I will not tell you that no one never died on a cross . I will tell you Jesus did not die on a cross.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
cataway said:
its apparent you have not read what the bible does say about the matter. the body of Jesus was not left hanging ,even after sun down.the same is true of the other two hung up that day. I will not tell you that no one never died on a cross . I will tell you Jesus did not die on a cross.
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Why would you make the assumption? More important why assume that the story is even correct? Once again you are not understanding Roman crucifixion. Jesus almost certainly died on the cross. That sort of happens quite often when people are crucified.
 
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