Crusade vs Jihad wars:Can it be solved?

[jeager106]

Maybe we have located the major issue. The erroneous belief that the west cares what religion the terrorists are. To the vast majority here, terrorists are terrorists. There have been many from multiple religions.

Yes this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.
I know of not one American friend of mine, nor any American posting about terrorism, that
denounces terrorist actions due to any kind of religious dogma.
We are very religious tolerant in the U.S. We are tolerant of all cultures and our own
differing Christian denominations.
We don't give a fat rats patoot what religion a terrorist or terrorist organization is.
We HATE the violence anywhere in the world especially when the actors behave
as animals beheading and burning people alive, taking Arabic women as sex
slaves, trading off captured Arabic children to the human trafficking trade and more
horrors. It matters not that this is done in the name of some bull**** religion.
We HATE the violence. Don't come to the U.S. with it as we are an armed nation
and we WILL defend ourselves even in the grocery store.
Religion will have nothing to do with it.

 

[leibowde84]

Yes this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.
I know of not one American friend of mine, nor any American posting about terrorism, that
denounces terrorist actions due to any kind of religious dogma.
We are very religious tolerant in the U.S. We are tolerant of all cultures and our own
differing Christian denominations.
We don't give a fat rats patoot what religion a terrorist or terrorist organization is.
We HATE the violence anywhere in the world especially when the actors behave
as animals beheading and burning people alive, taking Arabic women as sex
slaves, trading off captured Arabic children to the human trafficking trade and more
horrors. It matters not that this is done in the name of some bull**** religion.
We HATE the violence. Don't come to the U.S. with it as we are an armed nation
and we WILL defend ourselves even in the grocery store.
Religion will have nothing to do with it.

I agree. If the terrorists stopped today, we would stop as soon as we were confident they were being honest. If they think that they are taking Israel back, though, they have to stop targeting civilians before we will take them seriously at all.

 

[JFish123]

Yes this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.
I know of not one American friend of mine, nor any American posting about terrorism, that
denounces terrorist actions due to any kind of religious dogma.
We are very religious tolerant in the U.S. We are tolerant of all cultures and our own
differing Christian denominations.
We don't give a fat rats patoot what religion a terrorist or terrorist organization is.
We HATE the violence anywhere in the world especially when the actors behave
as animals beheading and burning people alive, taking Arabic women as sex
slaves, trading off captured Arabic children to the human trafficking trade and more
horrors. It matters not that this is done in the name of some bull**** religion.
We HATE the violence. Don't come to the U.S. with it as we are an armed nation
and we WILL defend ourselves even in the grocery store.
Religion will have nothing to do with it.

That is mostly true and I'd like to add that the basis of there actions (vulgar as they are) they themselves say it's justified because of Islam. In very early writings from his followers and biographers, Muhammad did the same things. After all, if Muhammad never preached violence or Jihad, never raided caravans, or had 14 wives, but preached like Jesus to turn the other cheek, forgive and not use violence, then the Middle East would be a very different place right now. Sadly though a Jesus like prophet the Middle East did not get.

 

[jeager106]

That is mostly true and I'd like to add that the basis of there actions (vulgar as they are) they themselves say it's justified because of Islam. In very early writings from his followers and biographers, Muhammad did the same things. After all, if Muhammad never preached violence or Jihad, never raided caravans, or had 14 wives, but preached like Jesus to turn the other cheek, forgive and not use violence, then the Middle East would be a very different place right now. Sadly though a Jesus like prophet the Middle East did not get.

Yes^^^^^this and oddly enough Islam believes very much in Jesus the prophet
but denies he went to the cross and died.
Islam preaches Jesus was spirited (pun alert) away by his friends and an imposter substituted.
Like no one would have noticed?

 

[JFish123]

Yes^^^^^this and oddly enough Islam believes very much in Jesus the prophet
but denies he went to the cross and died.
Islam preaches Jesus was spirited (pun alert) away by his friends and an imposter substituted.
Like no one would have noticed?

It does make God a bit of a deceiver. And it's said in the Holy Books of Islam that Allah is "the best of deceivers." Sounds like someone else, I think...

 

[Shad]

Actually bush is devout christian who attacked muslim countries because of religion

No he didn't. His family and the Sauds have been business partners for decades. Go Google a few images of the Bush and Saud family together. His attack on Iraq is due to his father's legacy of not removing Saddam and needing to strike at "terrorists" so he does not look like the inept leader he was.

 

[dust1n]

When the US Government kills innocent people, they are collateral damage. They are not the targets. With Islamic Extremist groups, innocent civilians ARE the target. Don't you think that is an important clarification?

To the people who know the dead innocent person, I really doubt either of those two options look very much different from one another.

 

[leibowde84]

To the people who know the dead innocent person, I really doubt either of those two options look very much different from one another.

That's true, but they are a bit biased, don't you think?

 

[dust1n]

That's true, but they are a bit biased, don't you think?

I would agree that people whose loved ones die tend to be biased against the person or party who caused the death.

 

[leibowde84]

I would agree that people whose loved ones die tend to be biased against the person or party who caused the death.

Yes they are, so I wouldn't be surprised if they ignore this important distinction.

 

[dust1n]

Yes they are, so I wouldn't be surprised if they ignore this important distinction.

Nor would I. Of course, the distinction tends to be lost if the outcomes are going to be the same.

 

[leibowde84]

Nor would I. Of course, the distinction tends to be lost if the outcomes are going to be the same.

That's why you have to look at the whole picture. Intent certainly matters in this context. If collateral deaths are caused by fighting terrorists, it is the fault of the terrorists. When innocent people are targeted by terrorists, it is the fault of the terrorists. We cannot allow terrorists to target innocent people. The target is crucially important in the big picture.

 

[JoStories]

No way to escape that. There are plenty of crazy/ignorant people in every country. But, those are not the feelings of the majority of this country ... not even close. So, why should they represent us in any way?

I'm not so sure about that my friend. Have you ever read some of the comments by people on AOL regarding Obama and the current state of our country? Collectively, I see many of them advocating the bombing of the Middle East back to the stone age. Seriously Leibowde, I see these comments all the time. Along with racial epithets that infer that Obama should be included in the bombing. Here in Maine, we have lots of folks who would advocate bombing all the countries of the Middle East, even including Israel. Are you so sure these are just the crazy and ignorant, given how many of them I have seen say this tripe?

 

[dust1n]

That's why you have to look at the whole picture. Intent certainly matters in this context.

I don't expect people with recently dead innocent relatives to ever look at the whole picture, nor do I suspect that the intent to kill someone else wholly justifies to the family in question why that person died.

If collateral deaths are caused by fighting terrorists, it is the fault of the terrorists.

And if collateral deaths are caused by foreign airplanes, it is the fault of the...

When innocent people are targeted by terrorists, it is the fault of the terrorists. We cannot allow terrorists to target innocent people. The target is crucially important in the big picture.

Well, targeting anyone as a terrorist is problematic. Certainly, protections are reasonable to prevent innocent people from dying.

But at the end of the day, targeting innocent people and targeting a person who is surrounded by innocent people knowing that innocent will be hurt or die, is pretty much going to have the same end result on innocent people.

Be careful when slaying monsters lest you become one, so forth.

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes they are, so I wouldn't be surprised if they ignore this important distinction.

I question how important it is. Should we even honor it at all?

 

[leibowde84]

I question how important it is. Should we even honor it at all?

I think it is extremely important.

 

[LuisDantas]

I think it is extremely important.

I wish I knew why. Arguably, one who causes terrlble harm without even meaning to should be stopped even more fiercely than one who at least meant to.

 

[leibowde84]

I wish I knew why. Arguably, one who causes terrlble harm without even meaning to should be stopped even more fiercely than one who at least meant to.

I would say that the opposite is true, in this specific circumstance.

 

[LuisDantas]

I would say that the opposite is true, in this specific circumstance.

And that is what scares me. Sorry, I just can't find a way of even considering agreement. There is no moral way I can think of.

 

[leibowde84]

And that is what scares me. Sorry, I just can't find a way of even considering agreement. There is no moral way I can think of.

If we allow ourselves to equate the two, the Terrorists will use it as a weapon. If we refuse to target anyone if collateral deaths will be caused, the terrorists will merely surround themselves with more and more innocent people, which will, in actuality, give them more power.