sandandfoam
Veteran Member
Of course not.
The German government are calling the shots. That makes them responsible.
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Cypriot crisis
- Thread starter sandandfoam
- Start date
Of course not.
The German government are calling the shots. That makes them responsible.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
And yet they are still too poor to feed their family. Funny how the world works isnt it?
Also you probably dont want to talk about all the years where they had no pay raise.
"Boo hoo my country doesnt produce high quality goods that everyone buys"...
Why arent you mad at french government? I mean the Euro was their idea to keep a unified germany weak.
You are barking at the wrong tree.
lunakilo
Well-Known Member
Explain to me what the german government did that caused the global financial crises please.
lunakilo
Well-Known Member
I think the 'secret' is pretty straight forward actually.
The countries you mention had a pretty solid economy to begin with.
You know, one where you don't import much more than you export, so the country actually earns money (or at least doesn't owe huge amounts of money to others).
When the financial crises hit, the banks went belly up in these countries just as they did others, or would have unless the state had bailed them out. But the countries you mention did not have to borrow huge amounts of money in order to bail out the banks.
In my country they cut the money paid to unemployed people in half, or rather they shortened the period where people recieve a decent amount of money when being unemployed from 4 years to 2 years. After that you still get unemployment support, but a smaller amount.
Generally they made cuts in social security benefits.
I think most of the countries did similar things and that way paid for the stupidity of the banks them selves.
(Except Norway of course, they just took a bit of the money they had set aside for a rainy day... those filthy rich mountain apes. Me, jealous, nooo
)But countries with bad economies did not have this option.
If they want to bail out their banks they have to borrow the money to do so, and if your economy is bad, people charge you an insane amount of interests (if they want to lend you money at all).
This of course adds to the financial difficulties of that country.
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sandandfoam
Veteran Member
Allowed their banks lend money at cheap rates to people who couldn't afford it and then insisted that those who hadn't borrowed the money pay it back so as their banks who lent recklessly in the first place wouldn't take any hit.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
Long story short, you guys used your brains?
That is what the powers that be would ike you to believe but the idea that the population in PIGS and Italy are feckless children in need of 'saving' by out thrifty teutonic masters is ********
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
I think the 'secret' is pretty straight forward actually.
The countries you mention had a pretty solid economy to begin with.
You know, one where you don't import much more than you export, so the country actually earns money (or at least doesn't owe huge amounts of money to others).
When the financial crises hit, the banks went belly up in these countries just as they did others, or would have unless the state had bailed them out. But the countries you mention did not have to borrow huge amounts of money in order to bail out the banks.
In my country they cut the money paid to unemployed people in half, or rather they shortened the period where people recieve a decent amount of money when being unemployed from 4 years to 2 years. After that you still get unemployment support, but a smaller amount.
Generally they made cuts in social security benefits.
I think most of the countries did similar things and that way paid for the stupidity of the banks them selves.
(Except Norway of course, they just took a bit of the money they had set aside for a rainy day... those filthy rich mountain apes. Me, jealous, nooo
But countries with bad economies did not have this option.
If they want to bail out their banks they have to borrow the money to do so, and if your economy is bad, people charge you an insane amount of interests (if they want to lend you money at all).
This of course adds to the financial difficulties of that country.
Not so.
Ireland for example had a balance of payments surplus beofre the financial crisis hit.
Ireland is broke because we had to bail out feckless European bankers who lent recklessly and engaged in casino capitalism.
We had our pensions raided and our economy laid waste because Angela Merkel and her government insisted upon it and the spineless lackeys that run our country refused to stand up for us.
We have paid a much higher price per capita to save the Euro than others, there has been a huge transfer of wealth out of this country.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
What's your point? If German workers cannot feed their families how much harder do you believe it is in Greece?
Germany is a rich country, made richer by the competitative advantage it gains from the Euro. We who carry the cost of that competative advantage have mass unemployment and falling wages while Germa workers receive pay increases above inflation.
Actually it does, but whether or which I do not see your point.
Merkozy was awful. I was/am mad.
No, I'm not.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
So the people arent at fault. Its the banks fault. And therefore the german governments. Who are in fact elected by the german people. So the germans are at fault.
Not the people who lived above their means.
That makes so much sense.
Yeah the property and credit bubble had nothing to do with the irish crisis.
Its all the "insert favourite conspiracy here" fault. Because who else could it be?
My point? You claim germans are somehow rich because of their awesome pay raises and yet you ignore that they still dont earn enough to feed their families.
You still dont see it do you?
Is it foul language if i write bs because its bs?
The advantage lies within the glorious leaders of France and the UK who in their magnificent wisdom thought that it might be an awesome idea to kill off almost all of the industry in their countries in favour of the "service sector".
This is somehow Germanys fault that it then had various competitors out of the game.
You really dont like it that German firms build really good and expensive stuff that goes into stuff that goes into stuff who ends in in "enter expensive machine here" which gets assembled by various people around the world.
Is it Germanys fault that Ireland isnt the industrial powerhouse of the world? Something that Germany often was since the Industrial Revolution. You act as if the economic power of Germany somehow just appeared out of nowhere after the introduction of the Euro.
Nope because the Euro was born before 1990. Before the german reunification.
Mitterrand is the guy to be mad at. A real socialist by the way.
The french (and british btw) were just really really afraid of what might become of Germany.
The same with sweden and their welfare reforms in the 90s.
Well they had that option. But they didnt want to risk the anger of their people.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
It did..
Benefits to Germany of Euro
Very Competitive Exports. A key issue of Euro membership is that German exports are more competitive than if Germany had its own currency. Germany has seen the strongest productivity growth in the Eurozone area. Germany has been successful at increasing output and keeping wage costs low. If Germany still had the D-Mark, this increased productivity and low inflation would cause an appreciation in the D-Mark. But, with Euro membership, Germany hasnt seen this appreciation against other European economies. Also, to non-EU countries the Euro is weaker than the D-Mark would be. The consequence is that German export sector has done well because of improved competitiveness. This competitiveness is reflected in a large current account surplus.
Source: OECD 2011
Germany has a large current account surplus nearly 6% of GDP matched by a corresponding current account deficit in southern Europe.
Germany has seen a current account surplus since 2001
Source: Fallacies of Composition
Without membership of the Euro, Germany would have more expensive exports, higher unemployment and lower economic growth. This is the nature of a single currency some will be winners some will be losers.
From one economic perspective, the Euro may be better off without the strength of the German economy. (why Germany should leave the Euro) It is something of a paradox that German economic success (improved productivity, lower wage costs) can create problems. But, within the structure of the Eurozone, one countries current account surplus, is another current account deficit.
sourceGermany and Benefits of the Euro - Economics Blog
Surely it is the people that borrowed what they can't afford to pay back that are the problem?
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
It seems bizarre to me that anyone would think that ordinary non-expert people who were actively sold credit by banks are the problem and that the professional bankers who did the selling are entirely blameless.
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lunakilo
Well-Known Member
lunakilo
Well-Known Member
I fail to see how that makes that makes german banks different from any other banks in any other country.
And the german government(and the EU in general) is insisting on changes in the economy (which will cost ordenary people money) of the countries that are in financial trouble if they are going to lend those countries more money (that they will probably not be able to pay back any time soon).
But I still don't see why you insist that it is tha fault of the german government that those nations got in trouble in the first place.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
Because it is the fault of the German govt....
There is a world of literature available online about this. I've presented some re surpluses in a previous post. I suggest you follow the link there. Of course it is easier to blame the peripheral countries and their feckless citizenry.
Look here for more
The causes: A very short history of the crisis | The Economist
Well as a non-expert I know how much income I have a month and how much I can afford to spend on rent. My finances are MY responsibility not my banks. I agree it is insane how much credit people can get but they don't have to use it.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Yeah, but not all of us have advanced degrees in mathematics which allows us to know how to do things like add and subtract.
lunakilo
Well-Known Member
What I mean is that most countries with decent economies had the option of handeling the crisis on their own without having to borrow enormous amout of money, simply making cuts in social security benefits or the like.
In the countries that are really in trouble making those cuts is not enough.
So they don't have the option og making cuts and getting by on their own.
They have to make cuts AND borrow money, or go broke.
Neither of which is very popular with the population.