Daevas

[Marco19]

Hello dear Zoroastrian friends,

I would like to know if there is any difference between Devas and Demons?

Are Devas group of co-workers under Ahriman's control?

Thanks in advance

 

[Aupmanyav]

This was Zoroaster's invention to prop his great God, Ahur Mazda, and departure from original Aryan belief and the belief of Indian Aryans, the beginning of monotheism.

"The aka mainyu epithet recurs in Yasna 32.5, when the principle is identified with the daevas that deceive humankind and themselves. While in later Zoroastrianism, the daevas are demons, this is not yet evident in the Gathas: In Zoroaster's view the daevas are "wrong gods" or "false gods" that are to be rejected, but they are not yet demons.

In Yasna 32.3, these daevas are identified as the offspring, not of Angra Mainyu, but of akem manah, "evil thinking". A few verses earlier it is however the daebaaman, "deceiver"—not otherwise identified but "probably Angra Mainyu" who induces the daevas to choose achistem manah—"worst thinking." In Yasna 32.13, the abode of the wicked is not the abode of Angra Mainyu, but the abode of the same "worst thinking". "One would have expected [Angra Mainyu] to reign in hell, since he had created 'death and how, at the end, the worst existence shall be for the deceitful' (Y. 30.4)."
Angra Mainyu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Hindu Puranas, Devas are those who accepted 'sura' (wine) which was one of the things that came out of churning of the ocean. Asuras (without sura) are those who did not accept wine. But please note, this is a later puranic explanation.

 

[Marco19]

Hello Aupmanyav,

I wonder how you think about the following:

- Devil/Devas were worshiped as gods.
- Devil/Devas gradually became negative.

Wikipedia says:

According to the Vishnu Purana, during the churning of the ocean the daityas came to be known as asuras because they rejected Varuni, the goddess of sura or wine; while the devas accepted her and came to be known as suras

even Asura seems that it became negative by time. I wonder if the time of Zoroaster Asura was the positive god since he used Asura/Ahura as the name of mighty god?

- Another issue: I think that Rigveda says something like Devas & Suras were group of junior & senior gods, if this correct, then do you think it has the spark of battle then differing between the two groups while Suras remained godly but Devas changed?

Thanks in advance

 

[Jaskaran Singh]

I wonder how you think about the following:

- Devil/Devas were worshiped as gods.
- Devil/Devas gradually became negative.

I view them as garbage statements which are offensive to Hindu-s...

Wikipedia says:

even Asura seems that it became negative by time. I wonder if the time of Zoroaster Asura was the positive god since he used Asura/Ahura as the name of mighty god?

Probably not. According to iranchamber.com, the pre-Zoroastrian Iranian religion involved the worship of two main gods: Mithra and Apam Napat, along with other deities such as Airyaman, Sraosha, and Verethragna, but Ahura Mazda (wise asura) seems to be a deity made up by Zoroaster.

Another issue: I think that Rigveda says something like Devas & Suras were group of junior & senior gods, if this correct, then do you think it has the spark of battle then differing between the two groups while Suras remained godly but Devas changed?

Well, asura is not a class of deities in the R^igveda (or at least not referred to as a class of deities, it's used as an adjective or in the form asuratvam, used to refer to might). In fact, the phrase "maháddevÁnAm asuratvám ékam" used throughout sUkta 3.55 literally means "the unique (ékam) strength (asuratvám) of the deva-s (devÁnAm) is great (mahát)." If asura was used here to refer to a class of deities, then it wouldn't make sense to deva-s as possessing asuratva ("asura-ness"), right?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I view them as garbage statements which are offensive to Hindu-s...

Well, I don't see it that way. Two brothers parted ways and in time developed along different lines.

In general, in the earliest text, the Rigveda, the Asura preside over moral and social phenomena. Among the Asura are Varuna, the guardian of Ṛtá, and Aryaman, the patron of marriages. Conversely, the Devas preside over natural phenomena. Among the Devas are the Ushas, whose name means "dawn", and Indra, the leader of the Devas. However, by the time that the Brahmana texts were written, the character of the Asura had become negative. (text, cut and pasted from internet)

 

[Jaskaran Singh]

Well, I don't see it that way. Two brothers parted ways and in time developed along different lines. Lord Vishnu is a great Asura.

Ironic you say that, because the kR^iShNachAlIsA in my siggy literally has a refrain which says "jaya jaganandana jaya jagavandana asura nikhandana jaya" (victory to the gladdener of the world, victory to he who is praised by the world, victory to the slayer of asura-s/demons) and kR^iShNa, of course, is an avatAra of viShNu.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Sorry, I have removed that part of the post.

 

[Tyaga]

Daevas are rejected Gods in the Avesta.Later they become synonymous with Demons and are associated with Angra Mainyu.

Similarly as Jaskaran explained,Asura in Rig Veda is used as a generic term.However,by the times of Puranas,the term Asura became synonymous with demons(like Rakshasas).