Daily Obamacare Thread: Good and Bad

[metis]

No, it is nothing more than political propaganda, hot air, bloviating, grandstanding, or any other means of denigrating your opposition.

Maybe you should strongly consider taking your own advice, and maybe even avoid stereotyping people, along with maybe even showing much more compassion towards others. I think that's a trifecta that really could help you out a lot.

It's tragic that you condemn those who truly want to help fellow Americans in need, which can only be done both individually and communally, including through government, the latter of which shows up in the Preamble of the Constitution that you claim you believe in. It's tragic that you would let other Americans suffer because of your highly partisan political agenda based on nothing but sheer greed. It's tragic that I have not seen one occasion whereas you have shown one ounce of compassion for the poor and those hurt by hardships of one type or another. It's tragic that you don't seemingly care much about others, but yet you're so willing to support war.

I don't have to "denigrate" you as you've done a wonderful job of doing it to yourself.

I'm done with both of you-- permanently this time. I really don't care what you think about me, but I do care about your lack of compassion for others who may need help.

 

[technomage]

I address the straw man that some politicians would ignore the needy.

Actually, you asserted that it was a straw man. Your assertion is unsupported.

The problem is, the politicians who are advocating the cuts are not looking at the "needy"--they're looking at the "takers." That's what people like me are to these politicians.

In Aug. 2011, my health deteriorated to the point that I could not keep up a job anymore. In November, we were evicted. We lived in a van for several months until my wife's disability finally kicked in.

Right now, we support a family of five on her disability and food stamps--my disability was refused, and I'm waiting for an appeal before an ALJ. Rev, I want you to imagine supporting five people on 852 dollars a month. We get no housing assistance, food stamps got cut in January, there are no healthy adults in the house who are able to work. And for that, Romney and his ilk call us "takers."

For us, it's accept the bare-subsistence pittance the government offers, or (quite literally) starve to death.

We cannot afford all of my wife's medicines, even with her on Medicare and Medicaid. I have no insurance, and we can't afford ANY of my meds. And it will be at least January of 2015 before I get to go in front of the ALJ and argue that yes, I'm too disabled to work.

Forget a fancy car or jewelry or the latest phone--all the scare tactics that some politicians tell you that the "welfare takers" are spending all their money on. We have no car (and no bus service), have pawned or sold everything worth any money to pay the bills and buy the medicines my wife needs. Oh, and to top it all off, yes, we have an Obama-phone (a program that was instituted by Ronald Reagan, not by Obama).

I'm one of the "takers," Rev. And I'm damn sick and tired of being told how "lazy" and "shiftless" I am. I'm tired of the lie that the politicians who take food out of my mouth really do care about poor people. I'm absolutely sick of the farce.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm one of the "takers," Rev. And I'm damn sick and tired of being told how "lazy" and "shiftless" I am. I'm tired of the lie that the politicians who take food out of my mouth really do care about poor people. I'm absolutely sick of the farce.

I might have given the wrong impression. I'm not criticizing the "takers" here.
Moreover, I even suggested helping them boost their contribution.
I'll say that some are lazy, & some are not....it depends upon the individual.
So I don't judge the whole group. Better?

 

[technomage]

Moreover, I even suggested helping them boost their contribution.

What, precisely, can I "contribute"?

I'm about 90% bed-bound. I have times, every day, where just out of the middle of nowhere I have to lie down and nap. My memory and cognitive skills are about 50-60% what they used to be. I have difficulty speaking, difficulty seeing, and difficulty moving around.

Hell, Rev, at this point I can't even watch a 30 minute television show without losing the thread of the plot.

 

[metis]

Actually, you asserted that it was a straw man. Your assertion is unsupported.

The problem is, the politicians who are advocating the cuts are not looking at the "needy"--they're looking at the "takers." That's what people like me are to these politicians.

In Aug. 2011, my health deteriorated to the point that I could not keep up a job anymore. In November, we were evicted. We lived in a van for several months until my wife's disability finally kicked in.

Right now, we support a family of five on her disability and food stamps--my disability was refused, and I'm waiting for an appeal before an ALJ. Rev, I want you to imagine supporting five people on 852 dollars a month. We get no housing assistance, food stamps got cut in January, there are no healthy adults in the house who are able to work. And for that, Romney and his ilk call us "takers."

For us, it's accept the bare-subsistence pittance the government offers, or (quite literally) starve to death.

We cannot afford all of my wife's medicines, even with her on Medicare and Medicaid. I have no insurance, and we can't afford ANY of my meds. And it will be at least January of 2015 before I get to go in front of the ALJ and argue that yes, I'm too disabled to work.

Forget a fancy car or jewelry or the latest phone--all the scare tactics that some politicians tell you that the "welfare takers" are spending all their money on. We have no car (and no bus service), have pawned or sold everything worth any money to pay the bills and buy the medicines my wife needs. Oh, and to top it all off, yes, we have an Obama-phone (a program that was instituted by Ronald Reagan, not by Obama).

I'm one of the "takers," Rev. And I'm damn sick and tired of being told how "lazy" and "shiftless" I am. I'm tired of the lie that the politicians who take food out of my mouth really do care about poor people. I'm absolutely sick of the farce.

I'm sorry to hear of your plight, and I also share your anger-- as if you didn't notice.

Two of my wife's relatives died prematurely over the last year because they had no insurance and couldn't get the necessary help, even though each of them were "givers" most of their life. They fell on hard times through no fault of their own, and it's sickening that we live in a society whereas we spend more for health care than any other but have not universal coverage, whereas Canada, just a 20 minute drive from my house here, has such coverage. Had they both lived there, they probably would still be alive because their maladies were correctable.

 

[Revoltingest]

What, precisely, can I "contribute"?

I don't know you well enuf to suggest.

I'm about 90% bed-bound. I have times, every day, where just out of the middle of nowhere I have to lie down and nap. My memory and cognitive skills are about 50-60% what they used to be. I have difficulty speaking, difficulty seeing, and difficulty moving around.

I recall that you're disabled, & I've no gripe with people who do what they can in the face of strong limitations. However I do have a problem with people who, by choice, don't contribute. I've known some of those. I once had a new hire call me on the day he was to start the job....to say that he decided not to take it because his unemployment checks hadn't run out yet. So I know that the "takers" are a diverse group, & not to be painted with a broad brush.

Hell, Rev, at this point I can't even watch a 30 minute television show without losing the thread of the plot.

I know that feeling.

 

[technomage]

However I do have a problem with people who, by choice, don't contribute.

Guess what--I have a problem with people like that, too. The problem is, when you cut their food stamps, you cut mine, too.

 

[Revoltingest]

Guess what--I have a problem with people like that, too. The problem is, when you cut their food stamps, you cut mine, too.

I suspect that we'd both prefer programs to be more focused, & provide incentives for work.
Example: I've advocated against cutting beneficiaries off entirely as soon as they get a pay
check. If the cut-off were more gradual, the incentives would be better.

 

[technomage]

I suspect that we'd both prefer programs to be more focused, & provide incentives for work.

And make allowances for those who cannot. There is no sensible reason why going through the disability application process takes two to three years.

 

[Revoltingest]

And make allowances for those who cannot. There is no sensible reason why going through the disability application process takes two to three years.

True doze.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Actually, you asserted that it was a straw man. Your assertion is unsupported.

The problem is, the politicians who are advocating the cuts are not looking at the "needy"--they're looking at the "takers." That's what people like me are to these politicians.

In Aug. 2011, my health deteriorated to the point that I could not keep up a job anymore. In November, we were evicted. We lived in a van for several months until my wife's disability finally kicked in.

Right now, we support a family of five on her disability and food stamps--my disability was refused, and I'm waiting for an appeal before an ALJ. Rev, I want you to imagine supporting five people on 852 dollars a month. We get no housing assistance, food stamps got cut in January, there are no healthy adults in the house who are able to work. And for that, Romney and his ilk call us "takers."

For us, it's accept the bare-subsistence pittance the government offers, or (quite literally) starve to death.

We cannot afford all of my wife's medicines, even with her on Medicare and Medicaid. I have no insurance, and we can't afford ANY of my meds. And it will be at least January of 2015 before I get to go in front of the ALJ and argue that yes, I'm too disabled to work.

Forget a fancy car or jewelry or the latest phone--all the scare tactics that some politicians tell you that the "welfare takers" are spending all their money on. We have no car (and no bus service), have pawned or sold everything worth any money to pay the bills and buy the medicines my wife needs. Oh, and to top it all off, yes, we have an Obama-phone (a program that was instituted by Ronald Reagan, not by Obama).

I'm one of the "takers," Rev. And I'm damn sick and tired of being told how "lazy" and "shiftless" I am. I'm tired of the lie that the politicians who take food out of my mouth really do care about poor people. I'm absolutely sick of the farce.

:clap.........

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I might have given the wrong impression. I'm not criticizing the "takers" here.
Moreover, I even suggested helping them boost their contribution.
I'll say that some are lazy, & some are not....it depends upon the individual.
So I don't judge the whole group. Better?

:clap....tis one of the reasons I like libertarians. Many do see it this way.

 

[Revoltingest]

Smoking Mad: Tobacco Users Caught Up in Insurer’s Obamacare “Glitch” - ProPublica

Retired New Hampshire nurse Terry Wetherby doesn’t hide the fact that she smokes.
She checked the box on HealthCare.gov saying she uses tobacco and fully expected to pay more for her insurance policy under the Affordable Care Act. “It’s not a secret at all,” she said.
Wetherby dutifully paid the premium Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield charged her for January and again for February — and believed she had coverage effective on Jan. 1.
Then when Wetherby went to pay her March premium, she was told she couldn’t. A check arrived in the mail refunding her February premium with a two-word explanation: “Contract cancelled.”
Turns out, Wetherby was among about 100 smokers in New Hampshire caught up in a “technical glitch” that caused them to lose their new health insurance policies because they had been mistakenly charged non-smoking rates, according to the New Hampshire Department of Insurance.

Some things are so simple. You identify as a smoker or a non-smoker.
Give the gov correct information, & yet, they cannot keep it straight or apply the info properly.
They've been alerted to the problems, & yet, they cannot fix them. It seems a rudderless ship.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

From my perspective and personal experience, the problem hasn't been so much ACA as it has been the state of Indiana. I actually got health insurance under my dad for a couple of years after the ACA was signed. But being young has worked against me and though I need that "catastrophe" insurance, or whatever it was refereed to as when a young person needs the insurance due to a serious injury, I have been thrown an obstacle at every step of the way.
Apparently the mentality of helping young people now to keep them off disabilities later is non-existent in the Indiana legislation.

 

[tytlyf]

The Kochs busted again for spreading lies and propaganda.

More of these false claims continue to be debunked. Be careful righties, they're targeting you! Spread the word as some people may not know the truth!

A rundown: – The AFP ad that initially got the most attention featured Michigan cancer victim Julie Boonstra suggesting that under Obamacare, she lost her old plan and her new one was “unaffordable.” It was subsequently revealed that she will actually save money.
– The AFP then offered a second Boonstra ad that claimed Dems were attacking her “credibility,” but meanwhile, it featured Boonstra dropping the “unaffordable” claim and subbing in the assertion that her new plan “doesn’t work for me.” As Kessler noted, the language shift was designed to be vaguer and “harder to fact check.”
– The AFP launched new ads featuring two alleged Obamacare victims that refrained from making any kind of pronouncement about the law’s overall impact on them, thus carefully skirting making any claims like the one that got the Boonstra ad in trouble.
– The AFP then released a spot attacking Senator Mark Pryor presenting only the notification of a canceled plan as the hardship endured — unlike previous spots which at least made gestures towards telling a somewhat fuller story. And it turned out that cancellation of Arkansas plans has been deferred for years.
– Finally, the spot that Kessler debunks today does not even feature an anecdote or individual victim, instead making broader claims about how Obamacare has impacted “millions.” And even those general claims are misleading.

Morning Plum: The incredible shrinking Obamacare sob story

 

[esmith]

The Kochs busted again for spreading lies and propaganda.

More of these false claims continue to be debunked. Be careful righties, they're targeting you! Spread the word as some people may not know the truth!


Morning Plum: The incredible shrinking Obamacare sob story

And what does this have to do with your bogymen?

 

[tytlyf]

And what does this have to do with your bogymen?

The Kochs buy propaganda ads and pass it off as factual. Nope. The republican party is controlled and bought by big oil. It's just too bad the people frightened by their ads don't know the truth. Spread the word esmith, because they aren't getting the truth!

 

[esmith]

From FOX News First: March 28

By Chris Stirewalt

THE OBAMACARE NUMBERS THAT REALLY MATTER
What is the number that matters most today on ObamaCare? The administration hopes you think that its much-touted figure of 6 million potential ObamaCare enrollees win the prize. But that’s a mostly meaningless metric that does not reveal any relevant data about those who have signed up (or clicked a box indicating that they might sign up in the next few weeks). Who paid? No idea. How many of them are just refugees from ObamaCare regulations that cancelled existing policies? Don’t know? What is the proportion of sick, costly subscribers to healthy, low-cost customers? Can’t say. Can they say anything at all about numbers at all? They think they’re great and they’re quite proud of themselves. But that, of course, tells us nothing about how this disaster-prone initiative is playing with voters or might shape the fall elections. Fortunately, we have a spate of new polling to answer those question

News from The Associated Press
Fox News Poll: Majorities understand, oppose ObamaCare | Fox News

 

[Revoltingest]

The Kochs buy propaganda ads and pass it off as factual. Nope. The republican party is controlled and bought by big oil. It's just too bad the people frightened by their ads don't know the truth. Spread the word esmith, because they aren't getting the truth!

Big Oil buys politicians from both parties.
It's just that Pubs charge for full service, while the Dems are a discount house.
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=E01

 

[metis]

The Kochs buy propaganda ads and pass it off as factual. Nope. The republican party is controlled and bought by big oil. It's just too bad the people frightened by their ads don't know the truth. Spread the word esmith, because they aren't getting the truth!

But, as you know, it's not just them. Remember Sarah Palin's "death panels" accusation that quickly got adopted by many of the Republican leaders? Or that the ACA is "big government" whereas the reality is that it works mostly through private insurance carriers? Or that it's too expensive, whereas we will not know how the finances actually work out for probably at least a year of more? Or that the government is getting between the patient and their doctor whereas that's actually what insurance companies have been doing for decades now? Or that it's going to destroy the middle class, whereas there's not one shred of evidence to support that claim? Or...

Well, I think you obviously see and likely agree with the overall pattern above. The reality is that many to most national Republicans have lied and distorted the ACA, much like they've been doing with many other areas as well, and so many of their supporters are either terribly gullible or they just don't care if they tell the truth or not.