Damnation

[ChristineM]

Heeeey thanks for having me!!

Chuckle.

 

[Father Heathen]

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...when did he create hell?

It was at first what could've been described as a sort of cosmic primordial soup from which he was born, and then he shaped it to his will.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

If someone who is bound for an eternal damnation is fully known by God before they are created, why did God create them in the first place?

Eternal damnation is only accessible for those with strong faith. They willingly enter into the fire as both a form of revenge against God + trust that God the father will save them from it.

It’s a win-win situation for them. Either the father fulfills his word of new life in a new kingdom or the father is condemned and shamed for allowing his son, who is proving himself worthy, to burn in the eternal fire.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

“...come hell or high water”

Does this phrase not resonate with anyone on this forum? Is no one willing to make a stand in this world other than myself?

 

[Ella S.]

Or as mythos,

or as beyond metaphor.​

Or, more likely, an anthropomorphic personification of the natural world.

The concept of God developed out of an anthropomorphic personification of the sky. The top god slowly absorbed all of the offices of the god underneath him until he ended up being seen as the agency behind everything else, too.

The Tanakh, at least, seems like it's amenable to a cultural interpretation through the lens of naturalistic pantheism. It's far above the, uh, much more rigid literalism found in the so-called New Testament.

Of course, I think most ancient authors who speak about God clearly thought God had a mind of its own, especially given that the idea of such a God is probably a development from animism to polytheism to monotheism. Could we outgrow this by realizing that the universe does not have its own mind, as Spinoza did? I don't know.

It seems like the more mature theology to me, but it's not traditional Christian theology. Spinoza's books were censored as heresy, after all.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

And as Job learned, who are we to talk back? We can't stop him. We just have to let him use us as his cosmic playthings.

It’s essential to notice that Job leveled up at the end of the story. He forced God’s hand. His friends who were unwilling to confront and condemn God did not.

Job is an example of someone who has mastered being a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He manipulated God through glorification and submission in order to remain close enough to condemn him. It was a bad experience for God and one which he did not want to endure again which is why he elevated Job at the end of the story.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Spinoza's books were censored as heresy, after all.

I burned mine years ago.

(actually, I hid them ...)​

 

[Kfox]

How can you be bored outside of space and time?

How can there be such a thing as "outside of space and time" unless there are parameters for space and time; which there are not?

 

[Kfox]

What was the First Cause then?

What makes you think there was ever such a thing as a first cause?

 

[ChristineM]

What was the First Cause then?

At the BB the laws that govern this universe did not exist, including cause and effect. So no need for a first cause.

 

[Nakosis]

If someone who is bound for an eternal damnation is fully known by God before they are created, why did God create them in the first place?

Not everyone believes in eternal damnation.
There exists so many different concepts of God, you just have to pick the one you are most comfortable with.

 

[Kfox]

It’s essential to notice that Job leveled up at the end of the story. He forced God’s hand. His friends who were unwilling to confront and condemn God did not.

Job is an example of someone who has mastered being a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He manipulated God through glorification and submission in order to remain close enough to condemn him. It was a bad experience for God and one which he did not want to endure again which is why he elevated Job at the end of the story.

I have a different take on the Job story. According to the story; Satan knows God knows everything and only tells the truth. So for the Devil were to approach God with a wager that he could turn Job against him, all God has to do is tell him that he can’t and the devil would know that to be the truth and the conversation would be over. The fact that God fell for such a foolish trick allowing Satan to harm the one person who really loved him tells me he isn’t as wise, knowledgeable, fair as most believers think he is.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What if god feeds off of suffering? What if he cultivates what we experience of it in life as a sort of seasoning, and hell is his banquet to which all souls are destined?

I'd say he needs to watch Monsters, Inc., then.

 

[Nakosis]

At the BB the laws that govern this universe did not exist, including cause and effect. So no need for a first cause.

That's just really screwing with my mind.

 

[ChristineM]

That's just really screwing with my mind.

It takes some getting your head around for sure.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

According to the story; Satan knows God knows everything and only tells the truth.

Can you cite this?

 

[Kfox]

Can you cite this?

Are you saying Satan is unaware of this?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Are you saying Satan is unaware of this?

I was looking for the part of the story where it mentions what you said and couldn’t find it. You said “according to the story”. Can you help me out and cite where it mentions it?

 

[Kfox]

I was looking for the part of the story where it mentions what you said and couldn’t find it. You said “according to the story”. Can you help me out and cite where it mentions it?

The Bible mentions it, but the story of Job does not.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

The Bible mentions it, but the story of Job does not.

The Bible is not to be viewed as one coherent story. Anyone who says otherwise is mistaken. It’s an attempt to reveal a story which is concealed.