Danish ed.: I'd print Holocaust cartoons

[greatcalgarian]

what they don't tell you is the editor who didn't approve the cartoon of Jesus and the one who approved the cartoon of Mohammed are 2 different people.

how do you know if that same editor were still there today that the mohammed cartoon would have ever run?

if it were the same editor then it would be hypocricy,
i this case i fail to see it.

Different editor, but same publisher, same guideline for publishing. In fact, the publisher (today, that is when this was brought up) defended the editor's action three years ago, claiming: the cartoon was not solicited, the cartoon was of low quality, and no reader will enjoy it, and the editor then was polite not to tell the person submitting the cartoons that his work was no good, no standard at all, so cooked up the excuse that it was not the policy to publish sensitive material like this, which may hurt the feeling of the Christians. So go figure.:curtsy:

 

[greatcalgarian]

These cartoons are printed in the papers of Muslim nations daily.

Yes, those Muslim nations daily are bad boys. Do we the West want to lower ourselves to the same status like those Muslim nations daily, the Danish and a few French publisher??

 

[linwood]

Yes, those Muslim nations daily are bad boys. Do we the West want to lower ourselves to the same status like those Muslim nations daily, the Danish and a few French publisher??

Wait a sec, you can`t have your cake and eat it too.

In the "other" thread you just said this is a matter of different cultural norms.

Now you say we`d be "lowering ourselves" if we met those cultural norms.

I want to know why publishing a cartoon whether it`s anti-muslim or anti judiac is more reprehensible to you than killing, threatening and burning?

 

[greatcalgarian]

Wait a sec, you can`t have your cake and eat it too.

In the "other" thread you just said this is a matter of different cultural norms.

Now you say we`d be "lowering ourselves" if we met those cultural norms.

I want to know why publishing a cartoon whether it`s anti-muslim or anti judiac is more reprehensible to you than killing, threatening and burning?

What I am saying is that we (Danish) publish one cartoon (which I hope everyone now see that should not have been published, whether it is for freedom of speech or whatever reason), then the Muslim nations retaliates by publishing one hundred cartoons (which I said is wrong), and then the West reproduced these cartoon, etc and add more maybe. Where is this going to end?

I am not comparing publishing cartoons to killing, threatening and burning.

 

[Darkdale]

What I am saying is that we (Danish) publish one cartoon (which I hope everyone now see that should not have been published, whether it is for freedom of speech or whatever reason), then the Muslim nations retaliates by publishing one hundred cartoons (which I said is wrong), and then the West reproduced these cartoon, etc and add more maybe. Where is this going to end?

I am not comparing publishing cartoons to killing, threatening and burning.

1. I'm glad they were published.
2. I think more people should publish them, just to show the Muslims that we aren't afraid of them. That we don't bow to threats of violence.
3. I think what you are doing is trying to justify the violence over a couple of silly cartoons. It's crazy.

As far as I am concerned, there is only two ways that this conflict between the Arab world and the West will end.

 

[Judgement Day]

1. I'm glad they were published.
2. I think more people should publish them, just to show the Muslims that we aren't afraid of them. That we don't bow to threats of violence.
3. I think what you are doing is trying to justify the violence over a couple of silly cartoons. It's crazy.

As far as I am concerned, there is only two ways that this conflict between the Arab world and the West will end.

It seems that you are only thinking half side of the coin. To you, the cartoons might seem silly, but you dont have any idea how Prophet Muhammad stands in a Muslim's heart, so this is not a silly thing for a Muslim. How do you get along with your friends, how do you maintain a marriage, how do you get along with you boss, your employee? It is all about tolerance. We dont live alone in this world, and how do you maintain this stability? Tolerance.

 

[Darkdale]

It seems that you are only thinking half side of the coin. To you, the cartoons might seem silly, but you dont have any idea how Prophet Muhammad stands in a Muslim's heart, so this is not a silly thing for a Muslim. How do you get along with your friends, how do you maintain a marriage, how do you get along with you boss, your employee? It is all about tolerance. We dont live alone in this world, and how do you maintain this stability? Tolerance.

I don't care how Muhammad stands in anyone's heart! lol To me, he isn't a prophet. He was a good judge in Medina and he did what no one else could do, he united the arab tribes. I look at him as a Solomon type figure - though not as wise. He was more powerful than he was wise. However, Muslims don't have a right not to be offended. Look at all the racist, bigoted stuff that comes from the Muslim press about Jews. Talk about offensive! Talk about hypocrisy!

Look, just because you don't like something, doesn't mean that a person shouldn't have a right to say it. You can't go killing everyone that you disagree with, or eventually you'll anger us and we'll fight back. We are tolerant and it takes a lot to get us to do anything, but we've already gotten started, so do you really want to push it? Over silly little drawlings? C'mon now. We should all be allowed to live together in peace! Free to offend each other. That's what freedom is all about man. The ability to live side by side, at peace with people that represents everything you hate; and yet, you live together. You choose to practice peace, instead of violence.

If you really think Islam is a religion of peace, then you really need to get the message out! Because right now, it appears to be a religion of violence and bigotry. We know that MOST MUSLIMS are good people, no different than the rest of us. We know that American Muslims have been wonderful, that they are Americans - but we need your support. We need your help. You need to be making the difference, from within. The only weapons we have for dealing with Muslim extremists are violent ones. You have the word of Allah to fight them with! But please, join the fight. Start a reformation. Don't let these evil people pull you into the dark ages.

 

[Judgement Day]

I don't care how Muhammad stands in anyone's heart!

Thats your problem, you dont think of others.

C'mon now. We should all be allowed to live together in peace! Free to offend each other. That's what freedom is all about man.

You dont get peace by offending each other. Thats the silliest thing I've ever heard.

If you really think Islam is a religion of peace, then you really need to get the message out!

I dont think that Islam is a religion of peace, I know that Islam is a religion of peace.

 

[Darkdale]

Thats your problem, you dont think of others.

That doesn't give anyone a right to kill people and burn buildings. There is no reason why I should have to like every religion that comes along. There is no reason why people should be prevented for speaking up and speaking out, for fear of being murdered.

You dont get peace by offending each other. Thats the silliest thing I've ever heard.

No, but offending people isn't reason for murder and violence. That's your problem. You think murdering women and children is OK if you are offended. Well, Islam offends me, should I start killing people? NO! I shouldn't. I can live peacefully with people that offend me. I can live peacefully with people I don't like. I can live peacefully with people that share different values than me. I don't have to like them, but I have to respect their right to exist and to exist without fear of being killed just because I don't like them.

I dont think that Islam is a religion of peace, I know that Islam is a religion of peace.

Then why is it so violent?

 

[Judgement Day]

That doesn't give anyone a right to kill people and burn buildings. There is no reason why I should have to like every religion that comes along. There is no reason why people should be prevented for speaking up and speaking out, for fear of being murdered.

Who says that it gives the right to do that? You made that assumption.

No, but offending people isn't reason for murder and violence. That's your problem. You think murdering women and children is OK if you are offended.

My problem??? When did I murder somone? Do you know how much nonsense you really sound like??

Then why is it so violent?

Sigh..You make such assumptions about Islam.I suggest you better start talking intelligently. Dont just babble around making irresponsible statements based on what you hear from the media, or from what you hear from mouth to mouth.

 

[Darkdale]

lol you are the one defending these people. I'm just saying that defending them puts you in a disadvantegous position. :devil:

 

[Judgement Day]

Im not defending violent Muslims. Im defending my religion, which is not what you think it really is.

 

[Darkdale]

Im not defending violent Muslims. Im defending my religion, which is not what you think it really is.

And I'm not talking about your religion! I'm talking about those of you who are murdering people. I'm talking about the cutting off of heads. The raping of women. The killing of children. The flying of planes into buildings. The burning of buildings. Strapping bombs to your own children! And you are indignant? Good grief! Islam isn't peaceful or violent. Islam is what the Muslims are... and minority of Muslims are violent, and the majority silent, complicit, defensive. And then you look at the West for understanding? I don't think so.

Iran wants to destroy Israel - and the Muslims are silent. The Terrorists want to take more and more American lives - and the Muslims are silent. The Palestinians strap bombs onto teenagers - and the Muslims are silent.

Do I think Islam is violent? No. I think it is silent. I think it is luke-warm. I think in the absence of any real leadership, the terrorists are running the show. And whose fault is that?

 

[Judgement Day]

And I'm not talking about your religion! I'm talking about those of you who are murdering people. I'm talking about the cutting off of heads. The raping of women. The killing of children. The flying of planes into buildings. The burning of buildings. Strapping bombs to your own children! And you are indignant? Good grief! Islam isn't peaceful or violent. Islam is what the Muslims are... and minority of Muslims are violent, and the majority silent, complicit, defensive. And then you look at the West for understanding? I don't think so.

Iran wants to destroy Israel - and the Muslims are silent. The Terrorists want to take more and more American lives - and the Muslims are silent. The Palestinians strap bombs onto teenagers - and the Muslims are silent.

Do I think Islam is violent? No. I think it is silent. I think it is luke-warm. I think in the absence of any real leadership, the terrorists are running the show. And whose fault is that?

Darkdale...Darkdale...You dont know what Islam is. You dont even know what you're talking about. First you call Islam violent, then you say no, it is silent. Wha else are you gonna say about Islam? Muslims arent silent, Islam leaders all around the world have been condemning regarding this matter, but the media doesnt show this.

 

[Darkdale]

Darkdale...Darkdale...You dont know what Islam is. You dont even know what you're talking about. First you call Islam violent, then you say no, it is silent. Wha else are you gonna say about Islam? Muslims arent silent, Islam leaders all around the world have been condemning regarding this matter, but the media doesnt show this.

First of all, I do know what Islam is. I also know Islam's early and amazing history. I am well read in its progress, its culture, and its problems from the moment Muhammad left for Medina, to the rise and fall of the Ottoman Empire. But despite Islam's rich history, despite its wonderful potential, it has become a stable of extremism, violence, and silence. You have not come out against terrorists with outrage and with demands for their destruction. Instead you defend Islam. You are defensive when it comes to terrorism. Why? You are sensitive to the violence of the extremists. Why? There has been nothing but words from Muslim leaders. I am asking for action. You have been clear that you are against freedom of speech, which goes to show the danger Islam, like socialism, to Western democratic traditions. What other of my freedoms are you against? You pretend intelligence, but do not show any wisdom. You defend Islam with NO RESPECT to the culture, liberties, and rights of the Western World!

So I ask you, what evidence do I have to believe that you are a friend? What actions have you taken to stand up for the lives and liberties of Americans? No, I believe that we are in fact, unfortunate enemies. I think Islam has been corrupted over the last 350 years. I think Muslims have fallen behind, in the progress and fight for liberty, for civil rights, and for equality between the sexes and between the races. I think moderate Muslims have been utterly silent, defensive, and unhelpful in our fight against terrorism. Why should I not believe that?

Let me also add, that there is nothing evil about enemies. An enemy is someone you simply cannot coexist with. I don't think you are evil; but I do think your ideologies are dangerous and I know that I cannot live with them.

 

[d.]

Iran and other Muslim entities don`t seem to understand that being secular means there are no Taboos.

this might be true in america (though i doubt it) but not europe. in germany, for instance, very much a secularized country, denial of the holocaust is a crime. sweden's got laws against hate speech.

 

[Darkdale]

this might be true in america (though i doubt it) but not europe. in germany, for instance, very much a secularized country, denial of the holocaust is a crime. sweden's got laws against hate speech.

neither of those are good things.

 

[d.]

debatable, but it sure goes against the whole 'free west' idea.

see, when we talk about other cultures, we are always 'the free west'.

as if we were one united culture. or as if they were.

 

[Fluffy]

Our history books in school are full of scanned Nazi propaganda cartoons. I suppose they should be censored because the intention behind their publication is obviously totally irrelevant right?