Yeah. That's right.
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Darwin's Illusion
- Thread starter Neuropteron
- Start date
exchemist
Veteran Member
In such cases I use the Ignore function. It reduces the risk of me being reprimanded by the moderators and reduces damage to my mental health. There is nothing that poster produces that is worth reading.
Winner Frube for this.
cladking
Well-Known Member
I type out the same three paragraph response to something over and over and it is ignored.
Really?! And you know this how? Which gene is it on which this complex behavior is recorded. You do realize "dam" is just a word and building one requires more than just materials and desire. There are different kinds of trees and many different way to put them together to block water flow. What few homo omnisciencis seem to realize there are far more ways to put trees together that don't block water flow than those which do. I suppose now that we know everything we can isolate that damn gene and cause the animal to build dams on roads or to use concrete instead.
NO. All life is "gifted" not with instinct but with consciousness. We are confused and we see what we believe. We can't fathom nature so we invent glib and facile explanations for it. We describe the appearance of things rather than their nature. We invent explanations based on belief, not science.
The world is not so simple as reductionistic science has you to believe. It is exceedingly complex and consciousness lies at the root of all life. "Consciousness" itself isn't so complex; it is merely a microcosm of all reality expressed as a refection in brain tissue or whatever means every individual has to experience it.
Language springs from this same wiring in every species that exists or has ever existed except for homo omnisciencis.
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cladking
Well-Known Member
It gets to the nature of consciousness. Consciousness must communicate for numerous reasons but chief among them is reproduction. A consciousness simply uses means that are consistent with reality and its brain. Bees have a waggle dance. Birds sing. Dogs bark. They are communicating for the betterment of themselves and their species. Individuals invented every single step of the waggle dance because "Evolution" is not an earth mother who can magically endow its creatures with abilities for beyond mortal man. All anyone gets is consciousness and language and this language is metaphysical.
Our confused babbling comes from the natural human language having become too complex for the average man. Ancient Language failed when there were too few speakers to lead the human race.
But all metaphysical languages will be shown to have many traits in common. They break Zipf's Law and they are digital. They are representative. Every "word" has a single meaning and every word has a mathematical relationship to every other word. Ideas (communication) occurs in sentences that define a perspective, a subject, and the intent of the author.
There are neither abstractions nor taxonomies because these are never real. As such there are no words that reflect any sort of abstraction. There's no word for "think" or "believe" in any natural language whatsoever.
Metaphysical language is the application of all knowledge to the process of "thought" and "communication". It is by definition the state of the art for every consciousness capable of understanding state of the art. Of course in the natural world this is almost synonymous with "every individual" because all individuals are equally fit and most species are prone to kill or exclude individuals which are in any way "defective".
cladking
Well-Known Member
You underestimate the power of seeing what you believe. Anyone can look at the fossil record and see gradual change caused by survival of the fittest. Once you see this and are taught it's real it is very difficult to unsee it.
It was easy for me because I never believed it. It never rang true for me.
Your belief led you to support Darwin but my belief in experiment, logic, and reason did not. My beliefs led me to look elsewhere.
cladking
Well-Known Member
No. History and writing are not the same thing because there is no writing from before about 2400 BC that is comprehensible.
No, proto-humans existed a quarter million years ago. They looked like humans but they lacked complex language which means they lacked complex knowledge and this is why nobody acted human until about 40,000 years ago. It is not certain exactly how this speciation even occurred. My best guess is that an individual was born who had more connections between the speech center (wernickes area) and higher brain functions. This allowed for more complexity in language which led to the ability of each generation to stand on the shoulders of the last.
Another speciation event occurred about 2000 BC when this complex natural language failed and P.I.E. came into existence. All these new languages were just evolution of various dialects of Ancient Language which was universal and had mutually intelligible dialects.
"History" doesn't really start until 2000 BC because most earlier history was recorded ONLY in Ancient Language.
You probably mean except for unicellular life, plants, fungi, and animals without a brain.
Very little of my understanding of how my world works comes from (formal) science. it comes from experience, which also being empirical can be called informal science. But I'm always perplexed when others tell me that I'm doing this wrong. What does doing it right look like, and how do you see that as an improvement for me. If I haven't already said so, I'm content with life. Are you?
I didn't see a description or definition of metaphysical language there. You used the term as if the meaning were already understood. I made a suggestion that what you mean by this term is thought without symbolic language, which characterized all of conscious life except man. Metaphysical to me means outside of conscious experience, or in Kant's words, noumenal reality (ding an sich), conscious experience being phenomenal reality. We know something of the former by the latter.
cladking
Well-Known Member
No! All life is individual and all life is conscious.
I'm simply trying to relate the nature of reality. How you choose to think is your business. Practical science and experience are in some ways and in many specific cases preferable to training in science. Even expertise which can be immensely valuable to the species and the individual can steer one to the wrong answers in some cases.
I'm not saying you're doing it wrong but that you are arriving at the wrong answer. This is the human condition for homo omnisciencis.
I'm simply saying I used a similar but still different method to come to a wholly different conclusion.
Really!?
Metaphysical language is a means of communication for all consciousnesses that is reflective of reality itself.
I mustta distracted you by explaining how and why it works and trying to provide insights into why we can't see or understand it.
Yes. Not to confuse this but those using metaphysical language to think do not experience thought.
We simply don't experience life, thought, anything like every other consciousness that ever existed. All other consciousness sees only what they know. They are effectively blind at birth until they see their mother and then it's off to the races. Humans are completely different. We see what we believe. We see our models and our knowledge is experienced in terms of belief. Of course there is experience which is true knowledge in humans. An individual can have experiential knowledge of complex events and processes because our models, our beliefs, can be used to gain such knowledge.
Anything Kant said might or might not be mostly wholly true or mostly wholly false dependent on many factors. Nothing at all can be expressed in symbolic, analog, parseable language which is true or false. There must be a defined perspective and a definite referent to create a true or false statement. There can be no ephemeral or abstract meanings to any of the words. Everything we think we know that isn't experiential knowledge is dependent on definitions, axioms, and interpretations. There is no concrete foundation even in experimental science except with the understanding of its unique metaphysics.
Natural metaphysics is Observation > Logic and it works because all other consciousness is completely logical because it reflects nature itself by means of the wiring of the brain AND language that is consistent with the so called laws of nature.
This is the very nature of life itself and Darwin couldn't have been further removed from seeing or describing it.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Citation needed. Where is your evidence that history was recorded in an ancient language.
cladking
Well-Known Member
You're grasping at straws.
I've already told you you can't understand AL and that no comprehensible writing survives in AL. How can I show what doesn't exist.
History started 1200 years AFTER the invention of writing BECAUSE it's the only ancient writing we can understand.
Everything earlier is interpretation. Indeed, the only single thing left in pure AL is the Pyramid Texts and this is believed by Egyptologists to be incantation and magic.
There are just a few snippets of earlier history and I must point out that without exception each of these actually originated in the 19th century BC or later. I don't doubt their accuracy so much as their relevance.
Why don't you find some actual history supported by actual documentation from before 2500 or 2000 BC and prove me wrong?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
It depends on how one defines "writing".
gnostic
The Lost One
Wrong.
In a mudbrick building, of a small town of Jemdet Nasr, there were about 200 clay tablets written in proto-cuneiform.
The building itself have been dated to about 3100 BCE. The tablets spanned from 3100 to 2700 BCE. From 3100 to 2900 BCE, the Sumerian period was named after the town, hence the Jemdet Nasr period, and the following period, is called the Early Dynastic period (2900 - 2350 BCE, divided into 3 periods listed in Roman numerals, I, II & III), just before the Akkadian dynasty & empire.
Jemdet Nasr period marked the beginning of Sumerian proper, the Sumerian civilization, but evolved from earlier periods, Ubaid period (c 5500 - c 3500 BCE), Uruk period (c 4000 - c 3100 BCE). A number of “Sumerian” cities actually predated the Sumerian civilization, eg Eridu, Ubaid, Uruk, Ur, etc. Uruk for instance, shown occupation as early as 5000 BCE.
The texts contained administrative records, accounting of objects (eg pottery vessels) and of animals (cattle, herds) and other food supplies and drinks (eg beers). Some tablets even showed they can do maths, that measured land for farming.
Hence, comprehensible. And that’s history.
These tablets doesn’t contain historical narratives, but accounting records are still considered historical records, hence history.
You don’t get to choose to what is history or not history, cladking. Accounting and administrative records may not be interesting, but it does shine light they were organized in tallying what they have, and what they have to trade with other surrounding towns and cities. These are definitely recording history.
Plus, the Instructions of Shuruppak, dated as early as 2600 BCE (Abu Salabikh tablet, the oldest copy), predated your “2400 BCE” marker, a wisdom genre, where the Shuruppak or Šuruppak was leaving wisdom to his son Ziusudra, who would in later Sumerian literature be the flood hero in the Eridu Genesis, and alluded in another tablet, the Death of Bilgames (Akkadian Gilgamesh).
You have only been focusing only on history in Egypt. The Instructions of Shuruppak predated the Egyptian Pyramid Text, by a few centuries.
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And that just about exactly describes why so many people are completely bamboozled by even modestly skilled `magicians, and completely amazed by the truly skilled. They know what they saw, and they know it was impossible. And then stop thinking about how it might have been done.
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gnostic
The Lost One
I don’t think cladking get to dictate what is writing or not writing, comprehensible or not comprehensible, history or not history.
Cladking ventured into his nonsensical world, in which he believed himself to be superior, when he don’t understand history, don’t understand science and don’t understand languages.
There are things I want to say, but I would get suspended for saying them.
A whole lot of things he do say, is utter garbage, especially when he go on about his 40,000 year old language and science that don’t even exist. Or when he ranting his conspiracies of scientists (eg the peers) or when he go on his anti-ramp tirades.
What does pyramid building and ramps have to do with theory of Evolution? He bring it (ramps) up, on subjects that have absolutely nothing to do with Egypt.
cladking
Well-Known Member
No! That is not history. I've seen many of these lists and records of such things does not say anything at all about the the economy, culture, or the changes. Laundry lists are just laundry lists. A list of temple offerings doesn't tell you why the temple exists it only provides a list of who donated what.
I do not even believe in conspiracies.
Perhaps you do.
cladking
Well-Known Member
I'm a magician myself. I'm not very good but I saw a magic act on a 4th grade field trip and needed to know how I was "fooled" so I got a book at the library and have expanded my knowledge by teaching myself since. I mostly just entertain children a little. The most important thing kids can learn is metaphysics and the permanence/ concreteness of reality. They need to learn that they see what they believe and not what exists. They need to know that while reality is concrete our understanding of it is ephemeral, determined by perspective, and interpretative. This is critical to start acquiring this before 2 years of age.
It is impossible to understand science without understanding metaphysics. You can garner expertise without metaphysics but it is difficult to see anomalies without understanding.
I forced myself to read it many years ago and I don't remember it either.
I remember waiting for a bunch of finches to evolve into a butler, since I was sure the butler had dunnit. Far as I remember, there was no suggestion about who actually dunnit.
Not sure you're right about this Just the other day my doctor wanted to run a test on me, and I refused, based on it not being suggested by the Kahun Medical Papyrus...