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Darwin's Illusion

LIIA

Well-Known Member
The basic concept of life forms evolving is an "axiom" within the biological sciences.

Other than wishful thinking, what gives the evolution hypothesis the status of an axiom?

An axiom means self-evidently true (unfalsifiable hypothesis), which means that researchers don’t have any option to interpret the observations otherwise. Which necessarily results fallacious/noncredible interpretations that in turn used to support the theory itself (Circular reasoning). Yet you call that science! It’s not.

The fact that most proponents of the ToE are ignorant of as explained by Ernst Walter Mayr, is that “evolutionary biology” is not an exact science, but rather a “Geisteswissenschaften”.

The exact science is “functional biology” not “evolutionary biology”. See #331

Ernst Walter Mayr said, “evolutionary biology” is not an exact science, it should be included with “the Geisteswissenschaften”

See the link below for his book “What Makes Biology Unique?”

What Makes Biology Unique?: Considerations on the Autonomy of a Scientific Discipline (wordpress.com)
 

LIIA

Well-Known Member
I find "evolution" highly problematical to the future of the human race.

Absolutely, only a true ignorant would disagree.

A pure materialistic interpretation entails that moral values are meaningless products of randomness. There is no place for it in the first place, neither right nor wrong, neither good nor evil, neither justice nor injustice. These are moral values that are not explained by matter but only a product of random process of genetic mutations that made humans assume that there is good, hence they love that imaginary good and that there is evil, and in turn they hate that imaginary evil.

Richard Dawkins was asked about the concept that rape is not wrong but rather completely arbitrary and he concurred. That is because it is possible for the random chance to take another path, which results in the person feeling that there is no mistake in the rape, so the matter is completely arbitrary, neither of the two feelings can be described as right or wrong. But beyond feeling or imaginary morals, the survival/dominance of the fittest is the rule of nature. The fittest is entitled to do as he wishes no matter what this wish is (rape, torture, dishonesty, etc.), This is the only rule that leads to a series of miserable confusion, nothing can be described as being praised or blameworthy.

According to Darwin, conflict is the law of nature. Survival of the fittest means endless conflict with other lower creatures in the evolutionary ladder till they get exterminated and replaced.

Darwin’s evolutionary view is extremely racist. He said in his book (The Descent of Man), “At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world.”

Forty years after Darwin's book (The Descent of Man), the First World War broke out. Among the most important reasons was the spread of social Darwinism, which prepared many Europeans who saw themselves as superior to others to enter the war, and behave like wild animals. Conflict and bloodshed are the law of nature for them.

Hitler adopted the social Darwinist take on survival of the fittest. He believed the German master race had grown weak due to the influence of non-Aryans in Germany. To Hitler, survival of the German “Aryan” race depended on its ability to maintain the purity of its gene pool.

Social Darwinism - HISTORY

Social Darwinism | International Encyclopedia of the First World War (WW1) (1914-1918-online.net)

This Darwinian role in war has been mentioned by many writers. CNN published a report entitled “Wars - A Manifestation of Social Darwinism” which concluded with the following statement “With Social Darwinism at play in the jungle of international politics, wars seem to be inevitable.”

Darwin also taught that women are inferior to men. In his book (The Descent of Man) he held a chapter entitled (Mental Powers of Man and Woman), in which he said about some of the traits of women "are characteristic of the lower races, and therefore of a past and lower state of civilization.”

Darwin’s ideas fired the bullet at the humanity of man. In Darwinism, there is no justification for any morality. Rather, the Darwinian struggle requires the ethnicities that see themselves as the most advanced of evolution to have the morals of selfishness, greed, and exclusivity, and attacking the lower races in order to annihilate them and multiply at their expense which paved the road to carry out genocide and ethnic cleansing campaigns, against other races perceived as lower in the evolutionary ladder or closer to animals.

The campaigns included the removal of large numbers of indigenous Australian children from their families by the government. The children subjugated by this genocide are commonly referred to as the “Stolen Generations”.

According to Darwinism when you adopt human values in dealing with all races without discrimination, and when you adopt the value of mercy for the weak, you would have practiced schizophrenia and betrayed materialism because you allowed lower beings on the ladder, to breed at the expense of higher beings.

Darwinian evolution confirms that all beings including man are in constant development, and this necessitates a higher and lower variants in the current human races based on the evolutionary differential criteria, which inevitably leads to the hateful discrimination, escalated conflicts and wars.
 

LIIA

Well-Known Member
#519, 521, 522, 523, 525, 526, 528, etc.

Proponents of the ToE are either those who rely on outdated scientific material without much understanding or awareness of the latest in the field (other than their wish that they do) and others who are simply ignorant blind followers, but almost in all cases (with few exceptions) they are characterized by dishonesty (Mainly with themselves). They ask for demonstration and supporting material, and when it’s given to them, they typically ignore it and act as if they never saw it.

Even so this can be attributed to incompetence with respect to their inability to read or understand the scientific material but their reaction reflects a typical state of denial as a defense mechanism initiated through self-deceit and a desire to deceive others, they’re aware of the deficiency of their premise but they find their satisfaction in living the illusion that they are rational proponents of science. They’re not.

The material addressing the failure of the “Modern Synthesis” is clear, conclusive and available for anyone especially those who are serious and want to be informed. Those who enjoy staying in denial, sure they can, its their call but it will not benefit them.

I’ll not waste time entertaining repeated nonsensical denial of those who’re neither serious nor honest. They sure can have their fun talking to each other. I’ll continue talking with those who are rational and have the integrity to carry on a logical and serious argument.

Take care
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I appreciate your rationality but I have a different opinion.



No, statistical significance is an important measure of the probability of a hypothesis being true with respect to the acceptable level of uncertainty regarding the true answer.

The context is different. A single diamond proves that diamonds exist in nature but a single observation doesn’t prove a specific hypothesis that entails endless number of supporting observations (transitional forms). We can’t ignore the statistical significance of the observations (the high level of uncertainty wouldn’t be acceptable).

A rare questionable exception cannot be deemed as an evidence for a rule. On the other hand, statistical dominance of observations (in support of a hypothesis) can be accepted as an evidence for a rule.

That is simply the reason why Gould rejected “Phyletic gradualism” because of the extreme scarcity of supporting evidence.
You appear to be latching onto a word from Gould's sentence and ignoring the context.

So let us revisit what Gould said,

'The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils.'

So sure he used the word "rarity" but he qualified how rare by reffering to the data at the tips and nodes of the evolutionary branches on the evolutionary tree.

So do you really think he was reffering to only one example? Do you know how many nodes there are on the evolutionary tree?

In my opinion.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
So for you to say, that Sumerian language started in 1800 BCE, just showed how out of touch you are, outdated in your knowledge about Sumerian history.

No I said the Sumerian telling of the "tower of babel" dates to 1800 BC or older.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
Sciences only accept model that are probable and verified, sciences are not about the “Truth”, but about seeking verified information, hence observable and tested facts.

What is the difference between observable and tested facts and proof?
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
I agree, you and I know that it was born dead but for others it’s not that simple, they hold a stubborn false premise, if you want to help them to see why the theory is false, you have to elaborate and walk them through it step-by-step.

You may think its simple enough to ask others to look at the conflicting evidence, be sincere and open minded, and look at both sides of the issue to make up their own mind about what reality is, but the fact is when a settled premise is challenged, anxiety is created, then denial kicks in as the typical primitive psychological defense. Many will just refuse to listen or understand and insist to stay in denial.

They don’t see you as a helping hand but rather they see you as a threat or an opponent which is not the case simply because its all about the free will, if someone doesn’t make the choice on his own, you can neither force them nor make the choice on their behalf. It’s their choice; they are entitled to it and responsible for its consequences. We can and will differ. At least you tried.

Thanks, I've certainly been trying to do this.

But, they make me define the same words ad infinitum for them. Every point takes hours to make and then they ignore it anyway.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
Calculated outcome driven by rational evaluation of variables is intelligence. It’s the very opposite of randomness.

I believe that you are approximating a definition for "consciousness" here.

People believe "intelligence" is a condition but no such condition exists. Rather it is an event that comes more frequently to to the quick than the slow witted. There is almost no such thing as "intelligence" at all and it is a delusion created by our beliefs that cause us to see what we expect to see and by our learning which we acquired not by "intelligence" but by language. I believe this is exceedingly important to understand because without this understanding it is more difficult to understand life/ consciousness and how species change.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
how many times I told you to see # 484. it doesn't get any easier than that.

You can type the whole thing out again and he still won't see it.

Science believers can't see what doesn't agree with their filters and then the drone on about needing "evidence" and how scientific models/ beliefs are founded on evidence.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
In most cases, ignorance is not a function of limited means to gain knowledge but rather the willful rejection of knowledge after a certain premise was being adopted.

I agree with your post. I couldn't have said it the same way but I do agree.

It is very difficult for me to unlearn things. Once I get a false idea it takes extreme and continuing effort to excise it. I was trying very hard NOT to learn anything false long before I couldn't unlearn things and before I knew much of anything at all. My premises are fixed and have been for a very long time.

"Ignorance" is simply the state in which I live because I don't really accept things at face value. I believe reality exists and my job is to see it but it is impossible to look at it directly or to be certain of anything I see because I am a member of homo omnisciencis also and see what I expect. I reason in circles like everyone but started with different premises so have reached a point I see different things.

Ignorance is not a good thing but recognition of our own ignorance might be the only thing left that can save humanity from self inflicted wounds. If we could see our own ignorance and our own way of circular reasoning we could have a far better appreciation of just how poor is our ability to perceive reality. Ancient science knew all these things because they could see consciousness directly rather than through "thought" and philosophical constructs. They knew they were ignorant but then they also knew how change in species occurred which allowed them to invent agriculture. They could see "Evolution" directly because they could see their own consciousness and the consciousness of the things they were desiring to change which was effective because it isn't "fitness" that underlies change in species, it is consciousness.

Darwin caused great evil and it's still going on because of his silly premises.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
The “Escherichia Coli” experiment is another example of false interpretation of observations and misrepresentation of scientific finds that would confuse the uninformed.

Yes, I agree.

But at least its citation addresses the point.

It was not new info but rather an existing inactive info that was activated as an adaptive response to the specific variables within the environment. It’s a clear example of directed mutation that allow an organism to adapt to the variables in its niche.

Again, I agree.

In fact, research has showed that Bacteria and Viruses are very intelligent, capable of complex decision-making, they change themselves and adapt to the environment in order to survive. See more about Microbial intelligence in #226.

They are conscious.

There is no such thing as "intelligence". It is consciousness that makes other people and plants and animals look intelligent. People are the odd man out because we think differently than any thing that was alive before the "tower of babel". We see only what we believe but all other life on the planet sees what they know.
 
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cladking

Well-Known Member
A pure materialistic interpretation entails that moral values are meaningless products of randomness. There is no place for it in the first place, neither right nor wrong, neither good nor evil, neither justice nor injustice. These are moral values that are not explained by matter but only a product of random process of genetic mutations that made humans assume that there is good, hence they love that imaginary good and that there is evil, and in turn they hate that imaginary evil.

Yes!!! And this is just the tip of the iceberg. The greedy believe they are improving the human race by killing off the less fit. People with food in their stomachs cheer them on.

According to Darwin, conflict is the law of nature. Survival of the fittest means endless conflict with other lower creatures in the evolutionary ladder till they get exterminated and replaced.

Funny thing is when I first read Dawkins I thought he had many valid points. Here he was damning the things that could save humanity and I half agreed with some of his points.

Live and learn.

Humanity is killing itself through gross incompetence, specialization, and pandering as we give all the money not to the fittest but the greediest.

Hitler adopted the social Darwinist take on survival of the fittest. He believed the German master race had grown weak due to the influence of non-Aryans in Germany. To Hitler, survival of the German “Aryan” race depended on its ability to maintain the purity of its gene pool.

Killing is the only possible result from the belief in survival of the fittest. Soon enough there will be reeducation camps for those who don't believe in science or Peers.

Darwin also taught that women are inferior to men. In his book (The Descent of Man) he held a chapter entitled (Mental Powers of Man and Woman), in which he said about some of the traits of women "are characteristic of the lower races, and therefore of a past and lower state of civilization.”

Women make better metaphysicians and men better scientists as a rule but this depends a lot on training and individual characteristics. It was more true when we used natural science then it is today with modern science. The differences between the sexes has been modified by many social and cultural practices as well.

Darwin is a leading cause of genocide but it took Freud to complete the source of evil. Freud made it common wisdom that leaders aren't responsible for their actions because they are driven by their "subconscious". We don't even know what consciousness is yet Freud claimed he could understand what wasn't conscious and that it drives us to do bad things and get bad results.

People don't have a problem with this because Peers tell them they know reality on a first name basis.

Meanwhile the results of ancient science are dismissed as old wives tales and poppycock so the world spirals down out of control except that the rich get richer.
 
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cladking

Well-Known Member
So sure he used the word "rarity" but he qualified how rare by reffering to the data at the tips and nodes of the evolutionary branches on the evolutionary tree.

Do you really believe there has been any substantial change in the veracity of the statement since it was made?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
#519, 521, 522, 523, 525, 526, 528, etc.

Proponents of the ToE are either those who rely on outdated scientific material without much understanding or awareness of the latest in the field (other than their wish that they do) and others who are simply ignorant blind followers, but almost in all cases (with few exceptions) they are characterized by dishonesty (Mainly with themselves). They ask for demonstration and supporting material, and when it’s given to them, they typically ignore it and act as if they never saw it.

Even so this can be attributed to incompetence with respect to their inability to read or understand the scientific material but their reaction reflects a typical state of denial as a defense mechanism initiated through self-deceit and a desire to deceive others, they’re aware of the deficiency of their premise but they find their satisfaction in living the illusion that they are rational proponents of science. They’re not.

The material addressing the failure of the “Modern Synthesis” is clear, conclusive and available for anyone especially those who are serious and want to be informed. Those who enjoy staying in denial, sure they can, its their call but it will not benefit them.

I’ll not waste time entertaining repeated nonsensical denial of those who’re neither serious nor honest. They sure can have their fun talking to each other. I’ll continue talking with those who are rational and have the integrity to carry on a logical and serious argument.

Take care
The above is simply not true, so let me suggest you consider getting a subscription to "Scientific American".

BTW, I taught an anthropology course for 30 years, and I never had any shortage of material that I could have presented but I simply didn't have enough time to do all of it.

Life forms evolve over time, and that should be obvious.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
Because it is easily observable and is testable, such as with the speciation we've seen.

Speciation - Wikipedia



It is observable because it happens so suddenly.


I taught an anthropology course for 30 years, and I never had any shortage of material that I could have presented but I simply didn't have enough time to do all of it.


When and how do you believe humans as defined by human behavior arose?
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
It is observable because it happens so suddenly.
Speciation does not happen suddenly. You have refused to demonstrate that it does or even to show that it is possible. All the evidence indicates that speciation is not sudden.

Of course, you refuse to define what you mean by sudden. A refusal that has become the expectation of your posts.




When and how do you believe humans as defined by human behavior arose?
No one knows for certain, but there is no evidence it was sudden. You are claiming, in essence, a non-human gave birth to humans.

You have a wonderful day.
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
Absolutely, only a true ignorant would disagree.

A pure materialistic interpretation entails that moral values are meaningless products of randomness. There is no place for it in the first place, neither right nor wrong, neither good nor evil, neither justice nor injustice. These are moral values that are not explained by matter but only a product of random process of genetic mutations that made humans assume that there is good, hence they love that imaginary good and that there is evil, and in turn they hate that imaginary evil.

Richard Dawkins was asked about the concept that rape is not wrong but rather completely arbitrary and he concurred. That is because it is possible for the random chance to take another path, which results in the person feeling that there is no mistake in the rape, so the matter is completely arbitrary, neither of the two feelings can be described as right or wrong. But beyond feeling or imaginary morals, the survival/dominance of the fittest is the rule of nature. The fittest is entitled to do as he wishes no matter what this wish is (rape, torture, dishonesty, etc.), This is the only rule that leads to a series of miserable confusion, nothing can be described as being praised or blameworthy.

According to Darwin, conflict is the law of nature. Survival of the fittest means endless conflict with other lower creatures in the evolutionary ladder till they get exterminated and replaced.

Darwin’s evolutionary view is extremely racist. He said in his book (The Descent of Man), “At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world.”

Forty years after Darwin's book (The Descent of Man), the First World War broke out. Among the most important reasons was the spread of social Darwinism, which prepared many Europeans who saw themselves as superior to others to enter the war, and behave like wild animals. Conflict and bloodshed are the law of nature for them.

Hitler adopted the social Darwinist take on survival of the fittest. He believed the German master race had grown weak due to the influence of non-Aryans in Germany. To Hitler, survival of the German “Aryan” race depended on its ability to maintain the purity of its gene pool.

Social Darwinism - HISTORY

Social Darwinism | International Encyclopedia of the First World War (WW1) (1914-1918-online.net)

This Darwinian role in war has been mentioned by many writers. CNN published a report entitled “Wars - A Manifestation of Social Darwinism” which concluded with the following statement “With Social Darwinism at play in the jungle of international politics, wars seem to be inevitable.”

Darwin also taught that women are inferior to men. In his book (The Descent of Man) he held a chapter entitled (Mental Powers of Man and Woman), in which he said about some of the traits of women "are characteristic of the lower races, and therefore of a past and lower state of civilization.”

Darwin’s ideas fired the bullet at the humanity of man. In Darwinism, there is no justification for any morality. Rather, the Darwinian struggle requires the ethnicities that see themselves as the most advanced of evolution to have the morals of selfishness, greed, and exclusivity, and attacking the lower races in order to annihilate them and multiply at their expense which paved the road to carry out genocide and ethnic cleansing campaigns, against other races perceived as lower in the evolutionary ladder or closer to animals.

The campaigns included the removal of large numbers of indigenous Australian children from their families by the government. The children subjugated by this genocide are commonly referred to as the “Stolen Generations”.

According to Darwinism when you adopt human values in dealing with all races without discrimination, and when you adopt the value of mercy for the weak, you would have practiced schizophrenia and betrayed materialism because you allowed lower beings on the ladder, to breed at the expense of higher beings.

Darwinian evolution confirms that all beings including man are in constant development, and this necessitates a higher and lower variants in the current human races based on the evolutionary differential criteria, which inevitably leads to the hateful discrimination, escalated conflicts and wars.
Starting off with a no true Scotsman fallacy. Excellent.
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
#519, 521, 522, 523, 525, 526, 528, etc.

Proponents of the ToE are either those who rely on outdated scientific material without much understanding or awareness of the latest in the field (other than their wish that they do) and others who are simply ignorant blind followers, but almost in all cases (with few exceptions) they are characterized by dishonesty (Mainly with themselves). They ask for demonstration and supporting material, and when it’s given to them, they typically ignore it and act as if they never saw it.

Even so this can be attributed to incompetence with respect to their inability to read or understand the scientific material but their reaction reflects a typical state of denial as a defense mechanism initiated through self-deceit and a desire to deceive others, they’re aware of the deficiency of their premise but they find their satisfaction in living the illusion that they are rational proponents of science. They’re not.

The material addressing the failure of the “Modern Synthesis” is clear, conclusive and available for anyone especially those who are serious and want to be informed. Those who enjoy staying in denial, sure they can, its their call but it will not benefit them.

I’ll not waste time entertaining repeated nonsensical denial of those who’re neither serious nor honest. They sure can have their fun talking to each other. I’ll continue talking with those who are rational and have the integrity to carry on a logical and serious argument.

Take care
Nothing you have posted so far indicates that evolution is not occurring. Nothing you have posted so far demonstrates a designer. All that I see demonstrated is your attack on those that accept scientific explanations instead of what you want them to believe. Swamping this thread with volumes of posts does not demonstrate the superiority of your position and does not refute theories.

EES is still evolution. Punctuated Equilibrium is still evolution. The Lenski experiment still demonstrates evolution and new information. Nothing you have posted demonstrates your position of the presence and actions of a designer. Attacking those in support of science is not evidence against the science.

See. One post and all your galloping words are refuted. No swamping required.
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
That’s Pathetic; you kept requesting one point at a time. I gave you a single simple point and you failed miserably. Don’t get yourself distracted by my arguments with others, focus on yours and stop the silly excuses.

Again, The point was your claim in #400 that my referenced articles in # 397 are cherry picked / 40 years out of date, which I refuted in #410. The argument was not about the subject of the material. Go back and read it again, (it’s not going anywhere). Now you’re trying to move the goalposts to the significance of the material (which contradicts your own acknowledgment of it before as a cherry picked material that support my argument), because you realized that your claim about it being outdated was false.

Continuous fallacious move of goalposts is an indication of incompetence and inability of engaging in logical argument. You keep trying distraction tactics and pathetic excuses. Stop the foolish games. You can do better if you honestly try. Think before you talk.

Regardless, whether its incompetence or dishonesty, it doesn’t matter because in either case it means that your argument is false.
I fail to see a difference in fewer overwhelmingly huge posts and an overwhelming volume of smaller posts. They seem to amount to the same thing from what I can see.
 
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