Darwin's Illusion

[Subduction Zone]

I hate to break this to you but every sentence ever composed since the tower of babel is solely dependent on the meaning of the words. This includes EVERY sentence including those used to describe experiment and build models. Science has no magical language.

Well there you go. You just admitted that that never happened.

Nice shot, you got yourself right in the foot.

 

[cladking]

You are the one who refused to see fact, because you have your own UNSUBSTANTIATED “belief” that people 40,000 years ago were “TRUE SCIENTISTS”, and these people drawing symbols in which you “believe” these symbols were written language, which you “believe” everyone back then spoke A SINGLE LANGUAGE, but they are not written language, and supposedly another “belief” that people started spoken multiple language 4000 years ago, at nonexistent and mythological Tower of Babel, and new species of humans, the “homo omnisciencis”, which you had made up yourself, which you no one else use, except YOU.

By George I think you have it. Just as you know everything I do as well. Based on evidence (that the same words are displayed in cave paintings all over the world) I maintain it is obvious there was a single world wide language. The very fact that vocabulary from all over the world traces back to the same roots says there was a single language. The fact that various sources all say there was a single language suggsets... ...get this... ...that there nay have been a single language. The FACT that Ancient Language breaks Zipf's law stro9ingly supports that this language was distinct. The fact we can't speak any animal language and the formatting of what is known of animal language is different supports this. The fact history didn't start for 1000 years after the invention of writing and that science can't explain and doesn't know how humans got their start is consistent.

I have lots of evidence that you are wrong and I have far more evidence that I am right than you do. Even Ancient Language used by the very individuals who invented agriculture said that speciation is sudden and caused by consciousness.

The very basis of language and science are wrong. The definitions and axioms are wrong. Once we fix the definitions and define consciousness scientifically I serious doubt anyone will still believe in "Evolution" and will find the idea quaint at best and insane at worst.

 

[gnostic]

I already showed an article that cited experimental evidence!!! You had NOTHING to say.

You probably didn't even see it because we all see only what we believe. Just as Egyptologists are blind to wide swathes of evidence that show the pyramid builders used linear funiculars to build mnemonics and biologists are blind to vast experiment (including all experiment) that show change in species is caused by consciousness and is gradual, you can't see the evidence (experiment) that shows you see what you believe.

We have spoken enough of pyramid buildings (ramps vs funiculars) at the Ancient Reality thread; we have done it too death, so not only I have no interests in revisiting this topic, I don’t give a damn if Egyptians used ramps or funiculars, to move heavy blocks of stones.

This is not about pyramids, but about your wishful fantasies of 40,000-year-old “science” and 40,000-year-old “language” that you have no evidence and no facts for.

You say other people accept evidence only in “what they believe in”, but that actually applies to you.

Your deluded fantasies is what you believe in, which have no basis in reality, and definitely no basis in facts, because you have evidence to support your fantasies.

You don’t even understand what evidence is or what experiment is. You just make up some cars that don’t exist.

And you accuse other of using semantics or playing word games, but do exactly that, except the words have only meaning that no one used except YOU.

And you constantly projected your own failing and your own ignorance upon everyone else. Look in the mirror.

 

[cladking]

Well there you go. You just admitted that that never happened.

Nice shot, you got yourself right in the foot.

How appropriate that in a thread that I'm begging you to look up "metaphysics" you would confuse the term with "magic"@!!!!

 

[Subduction Zone]

How appropriate that in a thread that I'm begging you to look up "metaphysics" you would confuse the term with "magic"@!!!!

Nope. Didn't make that claim, didn't make that mistake. You made a mistake by referring to a mythical event.

 

[cladking]

You say other people accept evidence only in “what they believe in”, but that actually applies to you.

Yes, it applies to me. It applies to every member of homo omnisciencis.

Your deluded fantasies is what you believe in, which have no basis in reality, and definitely no basis in facts, because you have evidence to support your fantasies.

Of course having so much evidence to support my beliefs doesn't make them true.

But, I'm trying to tell you, that science and reason are like a game where the guy with the most evidence usually wins and that's me.

You don’t even understand what evidence is or what experiment is.

At least I don't confuse the terms as synonyms or that they mean the exact same thing. All evidence is not experiment but all experiment is the highest grade of all evidence.

You want to simplify everything into something a child can understand but it can't be done. Everything is so complex no one can understand.

Modern science, though, is actually one of the easier things to understand.

And you accuse other of using semantics or playing word games, but do exactly that, except the words have only meaning that no one used except YOU.

No. "Word games" is changing the meaning of the other guy's words. Everybody gets to define his own words.

You play word games incessantly and semantics as well. That's when you try to prove something with nothing but words and their definitions.

I do neither of these things because I quit them as a child. I was very good at them however.

And you constantly projected your own failing and your own ignorance upon everyone else. Look in the mirror.

By George you got it again!!! I am nearly as completely ignorant as you. Maybe even moreso.

 

[cladking]

Nope. Didn't make that claim...

But I wager you can't tell me what you meant...





edited to add... Surely you don't believe "mythical events" are "magic".

 

[Subduction Zone]

But I wager you can't tell me what you meant...





edited to add... Surely you don't believe "mythical events" are "magic".

No, mythical events often use magic but they are not necessarily magic.

This once again demonstrates why you need to learn the basics of science.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

No, evidence is independent of what people believe.

This is actually you:

​

You are the one who refused to see fact, because you have your own UNSUBSTANTIATED “belief” that people 40,000 years ago were “TRUE SCIENTISTS”, and these people drawing symbols in which you “believe” these symbols were written language, which you “believe” everyone back then spoke A SINGLE LANGUAGE, but they are not written language, and supposedly another “belief” that people started spoken multiple language 4000 years ago, at nonexistent and mythological Tower of Babel, and new species of humans, the “homo omnisciencis”, which you had made up yourself, which you no one else use, except YOU.

You have invented all these belief, with no facts, no evidence, no experiments, no logic. All you have, are your beliefs and “your say so”.

You talk of “facts”, but not once have you presented a single evidence to support a single claim of yours.

I got that too. A narrative in place of evidence and a redefinition of reality to some fantastical claims. Again, with no evidence.

 

[gnostic]

How appropriate that in a thread that I'm begging you to look up "metaphysics" you would confuse the term with "magic"@!!!!

But I wager you can't tell me what you meant...

edited to add... Surely you don't believe "mythical events" are "magic".

The “mythical event” you using “Tower of Babel”: a “Tower” that was never built and don’t exist except in a “narrative” (Genesis 11) written in the 500s BCE, or about 2550 years ago.

There was no Tower built 4000 years ago (or 2000 BCE). Just as there was no Genesis Flood before this nonexistent “Tower”, or that everyone spoke or wrote single language prior to this nonexistent “Tower”.

The Egyptians have their own 2 written languages, hieroglyphs & hieratic, that flourished in the 1st dynasty (c 3100 - c 2880 BCE), increasing used by the 5th dynasty to the end the 6th dynasty, the Pyramid Text in Saqqara.

While earliest proto-Sumerian cuneiform was discovered in Uruk around 3400 BCE, in the Late Uruk period, but Sumerian cuneiform flourished in the next period - the Jemdet Nasr period (c 3100 - c 2900), before start of the Early Dynastic period.

Both Egyptian and Sumerian languages independent of each other. There were other languages “spoken” contemporary Elamite language (Sumer’s Eastern neighbour) and the Semitic Akkadian and Amorite languages in the second half of the 3rd millennium BCE, as Sumerians people wrote of them.

Elamites, Akkadians and Amorites have their own spoken languages, but not their own writing systems, so they adopted Sumerian cuneiform. The Amorites adoption of Sumerian cuneiform writing system occurred later than the Elamites and , near the end of this millennium. Akkadian was spoken throughout the Akkadian dynasty and empire for about a century-and-a-half, from 2334 to 2193 BCE. Sumerian language experienced a short revival during the 3rd dynasty of Ur (c 2112 - c 2004 BCE), but Akkadian as a spoken language continued to be used, by the Assyrians and the Amorites, forming 2 dialects, Assyrian and Old Babylonian.

Old Babylonian is a blend of spoken Akkadian language with some Sumerian and Amorite words, and a spoken language coincided with Amorite dynasty in the 1st dynasty of Babylon (c 1830 - c 1531 BCE), but they continued to use. The Babylonian dialect of Akkadian became closely associated with the city of Babylon.

Old Babylonian period was followed by the Middle Babylonian period, when the Kassites established the 2nd dynasty in Babylon - the Kassite dynasty (c 1531 - c 1155 BCE). Like their predecessor the Amorites, the Kassites adopted Akkadian as a spoken language and Sumerian cuneiform as their writing system.

No one said anything about “magic”.

But the Genesis myth of the Tower of Babel were written during the 3rd dynasty of Babylon, the Chaldean dynasty (626 - 539 BCE), where they adopted both Akkadian (hence the Neo-Babylonian period) and Aramaic as spoken languages, but continued to use Sumerian cuneiform.

There were no Babel. Only you would invent the homo omnisciencis which no one else in this world would use, except you.

You have created your own “myth”, which included 40,000 year-old language and science that don’t exist except in your twisted wishful fantasy. You have invented your own religion that only you believe, so if that’s not a delusion of your own making, then what is?

 

[cladking]

Nope. Didn't make that claim, didn't make that mistake. You made a mistake by referring to a mythical event.

I understand what you are saying. I don't think you understand what you are saying.

In post #1321 you implied scientists don't need to deconstruct sentences. Instead of arguing the point you gainsaid which is the only argument believers have; gainsaying and recital of gospel. Why can't you address the actual argument, ever? You deny it and recite your beliefs as though if heretics just knew a little gospel they'd come around. Maybe we know gospel but don't believe it and don't accept your vacuous premises. Address the argument! If you don't agree with something then speak up OR say why you don't agree. If it makes no sense then ask for a clarification or elaboration.

You are not going to convert any of the non-believers so try to stop with the gospel. Tell us why our arguments are wrong instead of saying they've been disproven many times before. They've been gainsaid many times before what they have not been is addressed.

 

[gnostic]

I have lots of evidence that you are wrong and I have far more evidence that I am right than you do. Even Ancient Language used by the very individuals who invented agriculture said that speciation is sudden and caused by consciousness.

Agriculture wasn’t invented by any one person.

Agriculture was the results of some people living in more permanent settlements that developed into settlements, where they grew their own food, farming crops and domestication of livestock. But for other people, nomadic life style persisted, where they continued to migrate from place to place, some continuing the hunting and gathering.

So while there places and regions during the early Neolithic period, adopted farming, farming wasn’t universal, nor did they adopt and use agriculture at the same time. Some cultures adopted farming early, while others didn’t adopt farming until the Bronze Age or even Late Iron Age.

For instance, not every civilisations or every cultures used ploughs at the same time, not every cultures used pottery at the same times.

You are forgetting that sciences are knowledge that explained physical phenomena and natural phenomena, but no such explanations existed in your mythical 40,000 years ago delusion, because there were no universal language, spoken or written.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I understand what you are saying. I don't think you understand what you are saying.

In post #1321 you implied scientists don't need to deconstruct sentences. Instead of arguing the point you gainsaid which is the only argument believers have; gainsaying and recital of gospel. Why can't you address the actual argument, ever? You deny it and recite your beliefs as though if heretics just knew a little gospel they'd come around. Maybe we know gospel but don't believe it and don't accept your vacuous premises. Address the argument! If you don't agree with something then speak up OR say why you don't agree. If it makes no sense then ask for a clarification or elaboration.

You are not going to convert any of the non-believers so try to stop with the gospel. Tell us why our arguments are wrong instead of saying they've been disproven many times before. They've been gainsaid many times before what they have not been is addressed.

As usual your accusations are false. I never implied such a thing. You really are not one to accuse others of having poor English skills.

Ease up on the false claims. That is no way to have a discussion. When it comes to the sciences when one does not know the basics and even refuses to discuss them, as you do, that person is almost always laughably wrong, as you are in this case.

When you are seriously ready to learn I will gladly try to help you.

 

[gnostic]

Btw, @cladking

That chart of symbols being doodle by prehistoric people that you keep posting up, included some symbols in Australia.

For tens of thousands of years years, Australia wasn’t unoccupied by British colonies.

If there were only one culture and one single language before 4000 years ago, then shouldn’t there be only be one culture and only one language spoken by Native Australians?

When the British arrived, there were over 200 different groups of people and cultures, and even more different languages, in which many of them weren’t intelligible to each other.

And they are languages, not merely different dialects.

Plus the decades some languages became extinct, so there are now (“now” as in today) less than 100 languages. Not every groups did cave paintings, and not all of them were drawing those doodles of symbols.

Separate cultures and separate languages divided the Native Australians. That alone, debunked your single Ancient Language being spoken universally.

 

[cladking]

The “mythical event” you using “Tower of Babel”: a “Tower” that was never built and don’t exist except in a “narrative” (Genesis 11) written in the 500s BCE, or about 2550 years ago.

As I've shown you many times there is a Sumerian version too.

Both Egyptian and Sumerian languages independent of each other.

That's a very bold statement about two languages which can't be translated and aren't really "languages" at all since they break Zipf's Law.

There were no Babel.

And you know this because the Bible said so!

Agriculture wasn’t invented by any one person.

Of course not!!! Remember? I'm the guy who doesn't even believe such a thing as "intelligence" exists. How could one man invent agriculture or Evolution?

Agriculture was the results of some people living in more permanent settlements that developed into settlements, where they grew their own food, farming crops and domestication of livestock.

There's a very poor definition of "agriculture". It is not an explanation whatsoever.

You are forgetting that sciences are knowledge that explained physical phenomena and natural phenomena, but no such explanations existed in your mythical 40,000 years ago delusion, because there were no universal language, spoken or written.

By george that's it!!!!!

What magic do you think they used to invent agriculture?

My contention is they used theory derived from observation and logic just like bees, termites, and beavers. The concept of change in species is fundamental to consciousness itself because consciousness and life are the same thing. Only theory can invent complex systems. There is no intelligence to make science work; in plants and animals it is driven by observation and logic where language is its metaphysics and in homo omnisciencis it is driven by observation and experiment. There is no experiment underlying Evolution so it is a belief system (narrative) rather than a science.

It can't be said more simply so just ignore everything in this post just as you do every other as well.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As I've shown you many times there is a Sumerian version too.

Where did you think that the Hebrews got their myths? The Old Testament was heavily influenced by the Babylonian captifity.

That's a very bold statement about two languages which can't be translated and aren't really "languages" at all since they break Zipf's Law.

Really? How does one even apply it in such a situation and does it even apply there.

And you know this because the Bible said so!

No, because we know how new languages arise. No evidence of a magic tower.

Of course not!!! Remember? I'm the guy who doesn't even believe such a thing as "intelligence" exists. How could one man invent agriculture or Evolution?

It appears that your argument implied it. Of course if your answer is different from John Deere you are of course wrong. Nothing runs like a Deere.

There's a very poor definition of "agriculture". It is not an explanation whatsoever.

And remember the rule for demanding evidence.

By george that's it!!!!!

What magic do you think they used to invent agriculture?

My contention is they used theory derived from observation and logic just like bees, termites, and beavers. The concept of change in species is fundamental to consciousness itself because consciousness and life are the same thing. Only theory can invent complex systems. There is no intelligence to make science work; in plants and animals it is driven by observation and logic where language is its metaphysics and in homo omnisciencis it is driven by observation and experiment. There is no experiment underlying Evolution so it is a belief system (narrative) rather than a science.

It can't be said more simply so just ignore everything in this post just as you do every other as well.

I need to remind you that you are the one that appears to believe in magic. In the real world no magic is needed.

 

[cladking]

It can't be said more simply so just ignore everything in this post just as you do every other as well.

...Just like you ignored #1322.

...Just like you ignore the many times I've said every experiment and observation shows Darwin was wrong and then you ask me to cite one and I remind you it's every one ever done. YOU need to cite one that doesn't support my contention but there aren't any. The "Evolution" narrative is wrong. We go over the same ground over and over because your feet aren't touching.

 

[cladking]

Really? How does one even apply it in such a situation and does it even apply there.

Just because a language can't be translated doesn't mean you can't count the words. I counted the words. It breaks Zipf's Law which by our definitions suggest it is not language at all. My contention is that this is because it is not language as we know it. It is the metaphysical foundation of ancient science. You cite belief, I cite evidence. You can't see this "evidence" because you believe in something else.

 

[cladking]

Where did you think that the Hebrews got their myths? The Old Testament was heavily influenced by the Babylonian captifity.



Really? How does one even apply it in such a situation and does it even apply there.



No, because we know how new languages arise. No evidence of a magic tower.



It appears that your argument implied it. Of course if your answer is different from John Deere you are of course wrong. Nothing runs like a Deere.



And remember the rule for demanding evidence.



I need to remind you that you are the one that appears to believe in magic. In the real world no magic is needed.

You don't seem to understand. Even if you could disprove my theory or at least provide a little evidence it is wrong that would not fix your flawed narrative. "Evolution" never happened and change in species is more similar to the Bible and Pyramid Texts descriptions than anything ever dreamt by Darwin.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Just because a language can't be translated doesn't mean you can't count the words. I counted the words. It breaks Zipf's Law which by our definitions suggest it is not language at all. My contention is that this is because it is not language as we know it. It is the metaphysical foundation of ancient science. You cite belief, I cite evidence. You can't see this "evidence" because you believe in something else.

Sorry, but you are not a valid source.