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Darwin's Illusion

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yet all the evidence: DNA, fossil, stratigraphic, radiometric, point to an evolution of forms over time, and they all agree with one another, and they all rely on known, observable mechanisms.
Contrast this with your "theory" of Goddidit: No evidence, no mechanism.

You're trying to support your unevidenced view by undermining our well evidenced theory. You're proposing magic as more reasonable than known, observed, tested mechanisms.
The fact that generalizations of dates are given does not refute creation. Furthermore -- again -- there is simply no proof and by proof I mean actual evidence, that evolution occurred per the Darwinian model. Fossils and dates do not prove, and by proof I mean demonstrate or give concrete evidence that humans came about by means of evolution.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
there is no evidence that demonstrates the differences of DNA between humans and gorillas came as a result of evolution. If you think there is, I'm willing to look at it. But along with that, you need to explain what it says instead of just posting a link, thanks. From everything I read from and about scientists, it is all -- conjecture, based on a theory they are convinced supports the conjectures about what and how it happened.
So you want the short, simplified version. Well, sorry, without links there is no room for a proper, evidenced explanation.
I think you're just looking for excuses to avoid the subject.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
No. Why would it show that?
It shows we are related.
:) We are related to the soil. Aside from elements in the body, I know that from the Bible. Soil, however, doesn't think. Again -- have a good night.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So you want the short, simplified version. Well, sorry, without links there is no room for a proper, evidenced explanation.
I think you're just looking for excuses to avoid the subject.
You can give links -- just be able to explain what it says. So far from what I see in definitions, there is nothing but conjecture insofar as evolution goes.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The fact that generalizations of dates are given does not refute creation. Furthermore -- again -- there is simply no proof and by proof I mean actual evidence, that evolution occurred per the Darwinian model. Fossils and dates do not prove, and by proof I mean demonstrate or give concrete evidence that humans came about by means of evolution.
There is voluminous evidence supporting evolution by natural mechanisms. Refusing to acknowledge, or even look at it, does not negate it.
Nor would its negation, even if you were to achieve it, support your Goddidit proposition one iota.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
@Valjean Oh, yes, conflicts abound about many things with scientific "explanations" regarding what happened in the past and how it happened. Again, take care.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
:) We are related to the soil. Aside from elements in the body, I know that from the Bible. Soil, however, doesn't think. Again -- have a good night.
How is your Bible any more authoritative than The Chronicles of Narnia?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
There is voluminous evidence supporting evolution by natural mechanisms. Refusing to acknowledge, or even look at it, does not negate it.
Nor would its negation, even if you were to achieve it, support your Goddidit proposition one iota.
There ya go, you're not willing to investigate it, that's what I see. I've "looked at it." I no longer believe the posits, the theory, DNA and cell structure in fact, would go against the theory. But why? Because anyone that says these things evolved (DNA and nucleotides) is simply going without proof, without evidence of the idea.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
How is your Bible any more authoritative than The Chronicles of Narnia?
You may find out. Unfortunately, your idea of how life began is sad indeed. Now for the hopefully last time tonight -- have a good one, as the latest expression goes (evolved?).
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
OK, @John53, here's a bit more info, not just what I remember. :)
"Ever since researchers sequenced the chimp genome in 2005, they have known that humans share about 99% of our DNA with chimpanzees, making them our closest living relatives. What makes a bonobo different from a human? Our closest cousins, bonobos share 98.7 percent of our genetic makeup."
Short-Facts – Fresh ideas for every day › how-are-bonobos-and-humans-similar

The link doesn't mention anything about bonobos. Anyway.... what I replied to was your claim that the fossil record is not evidence for evolution. That's what I would like to see evidence of.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The link doesn't mention anything about bonobos. Anyway.... what I replied to was your claim that the fossil record is not evidence for evolution. That's what I would like to see evidence of.
I don't have to. it's clear. Since there is no real evidence, there is nothing to show. So please show me that the fossil record IS evidence of evolution. I'm willing to look at the evidence. Evolution is generally considered the slow progression (or evolution - change) from one organism to another.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The link doesn't mention anything about bonobos. Anyway.... what I replied to was your claim that the fossil record is not evidence for evolution. That's what I would like to see evidence of.
You're right. Wrong link. Here's the right link -- sorry about that -- Bonobos Join Chimps as Closest Human Relatives | Science | AAAS[URL='https://www.science.org/content/article/bonobos-join-chimps-closest-human-relatives']Bonobos Join Chimps as Closest Human Relatives | Science | AAAS[/URL]
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
I don't have to. it's clear. Since there is no real evidence, there is nothing to show. So please show me that the fossil record IS evidence of evolution. I'm willing to look at the evidence. Evolution is generally considered the slow progression (or evolution - change) from one organism to another.

You made the claim, not me. I would like to know what evidence you have to support your claim. Or is simply a statement of faith?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You made the claim, not me. I would like to know what evidence you have to support your claim. Or is simply a statement of faith?
The lack of actual observation of humans having come from an "Unknown Common Ancestor" relating to bonobos, humans, gorillas, monkeys and look-alikes is truly the unknown. Now if someone wants to say similarity of DNA along with conjecture means evolution (obviously can't say it proves evolution) that's up to them. I no longer believe it, and for one reason in that, yes, there is no evidence that there was a "Common Ancestor," it is surmisal, and there is nothing to show that the missing or different DNA.
Clearly decisions about evolution are made by many, but as I continue reading and learning, I can see that it is based on, first the model (the theory of evolution), and then trying to fit what is considered evidence into the model. But it is assumption and imagination, based on what is considered evidence of the theory.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Ok great, it is about Bonobos but I don't see how it is evidence for your claim that the fossil record does not support evolution.
:) The point is that the claim that there is a great similarity of DNA between the organisms does not mean evolution, and it does not mean that bonobos, gorillas, and humans evolved from an "Unknown Commoin Ancestor," otherwise known as the UCA. Anyway, that's it for now, time is marching ? on. Getting late. Good night.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Oh, and one more thing -- as someone else mentioned, if evolution is not the reason humans are here, then the question must logically arise, what is? For me, even before I abandoned the theory, I had to pray for the first time in years. I understand why people claim to be atheists. It's not an easy world, and while some might disagree, it's not a real easy life either. But I'm happy now that I'm alive. And look forward to more.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
The lack of actual observation of humans having come from an "Unknown Common Ancestor" relating to bonobos, humans, gorillas, monkeys and look-alikes is truly the unknown. Now if someone wants to say similarity of DNA along with conjecture means evolution (obviously can't say it proves evolution) that's up to them. I no longer believe it, and for one reason in that, yes, there is no evidence that there was a "Common Ancestor," it is surmisal, and there is nothing to show that the missing or different DNA.
Clearly decisions about evolution are made by many, but as I continue reading and learning, I can see that it is based on, first the model (the theory of evolution), and then trying to fit what is considered evidence into the model. But it is assumption and imagination, based on what is considered evidence of the theory.

Ok then share your learning.... what is the evidence for your claim that fossils do not support evolution? If you're so convinced you must have something.

So far lack of observation is the only thing you've mentioned. Which is kinda obvious unless someone has built a machine that can look backwards in time and I haven't been told about it.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The lack of actual observation of humans having come from an "Unknown Common Ancestor" relating to bonobos, humans, gorillas, monkeys and look-alikes is truly the unknown. Now if someone wants to say similarity of DNA along with conjecture means evolution (obviously can't say it proves evolution) that's up to them. I no longer believe it, and for one reason in that, yes, there is no evidence that there was a "Common Ancestor," it is surmisal, and there is nothing to show that the missing or different DNA.
Clearly decisions about evolution are made by many, but as I continue reading and learning, I can see that it is based on, first the model (the theory of evolution), and then trying to fit what is considered evidence into the model. But it is assumption and imagination, based on what is considered evidence of the theory.
We don't need a direct observation to know something. Where did you get that idea from? Pluto's orbit was calculated shortly after it was first observed, we do not need a full orbit to know how long it takes to get around the Sun.

You should watch this video:

 

cladking

Well-Known Member
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