David Ben-Gurion quotes

[UnityNow101]

I have ran by some quotes by David Ben-Gurion, the first ever Israeli PM and would like to hear peoples opinions of them. To be honest, they came as a shock to me.

“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”-David Ben-Gurion

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.”-David Ben-Gurion

 

[Sunstone]

Do you have a source for the quotes?

 

[UnityNow101]

I have taken those quotes from thinkexist.com, but you can find them in other places as well....Just search David Ben Gurion quotes in google.

 

[Sunstone]

I have taken those quotes from thinkexist.com, but you can find them in other places as well....Just search David Ben Gurion quotes in google.

Thanks. If accurate, they're very disturbing.

 

[UnityNow101]

That may just be the reason that many Muslims in the Middle East have something against the Zionists? I read about Zionism today and was shocked that the State of Israel wasn't even begun by religious Jews who practiced Judaism, but rather a guy that backed communism and was an atheist. Maybe this is why Muslims say that they are against the Zionists and not the Jews? They may just be two different entities with two completely different agendas?

 

[UnityNow101]

These quotes do not disturb anyone else? Zionism and Judaism are NOT the same..Just look it all up. Zionism was begun by people that could have cared less about Judaism and God, and people praise their every effort. Muslims dislike the Zionist agenda, not Judaism or Jewish people.

 

[greatcalgarian]

These quotes are pure Zionism. Let us not mix up Zionism with Judaism. Judaism also believes in one day God will bring back His people to Israel.

 

[Yerda]

I have ran by some quotes by David Ben-Gurion...they came as a shock to me.

And me. When I find I'm surprised by something I try to inquire into it. My initial reading suggests that the second quote (the most shocking) is a fabrication. It is frequently attributed to Yisrael Koenig in his controversial 'Memorandum' to Rabin. I've located a pdf file of the document. It looks authentic. A quick look with the 'search' function shows that it doesn't contain a single reference to "terror" or "assassination".

Have a look: http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/10/6/265188/koenig report.pdf

I've seen it also attributed to Ben-Gurion but I can find no source.

Sadly enough I've seen it reproduced not only by anti-Semitic websites but by respected journalists without citation.

 

[Yerda]

Let us not mix up Zionism with Judaism.

While not forgetting that anti-Zionism is a common façade for anti-Semites.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It all depends where you stop the clock, as to what you think about Ben-Gurion.

Before the state of Israel he was leader of the Zionist terrorists that fought against the British mandate.

He understood the use of terror tactics very well, and was probably the most successful one ever.

To ascribe the second quote to him may or may not be accurate, but he would have understood its practical application.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I've seen it also attributed to Ben-Gurion but I can find no source. Sadly enough I've seen it reproduced not only by anti-Semitic websites but by respected journalists without citation.

Not to mention it being proliferated by pathetic yet eager apologists qualitatively too irresponsible to engage in or care about honest research.

From Camera ...

Media Monitors (http://www.mediamonitors.net)

An article archived on the Media Monitors Web site is filled with questionable assertions and bogus quotes (some of which were debunked in Part I.) The following quote (which also appears on the MIFTAH Web site) was attributed to Israeli Northern District Commissioner Israel Koenig, supposedly from his controversial report on Israeli Arabs in Galilee:

We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.​

Source given: Cited in Lustick, Ian, Arabs in the Jewish State, University of Texas Press, Texas, 1980.

Investigation: Neither the source given (Ian Lustick's Arabs in the Jewish State) nor the actual report itself contains any mention of "terror, assassination, intimidation or land confiscation".

The Koenig Report or “memorandum” as it is sometimes referred to, was a private document of recommendations written in 1975 by civil servant Israel Koenig, the Interior Ministry’s official in charge of the Galilee, to alter the demographic balance of the region in favor of the Jews. The recommendations were rejected by then Prime Minister Yitzchak Rabin, denounced by senior Cabinet ministers and rued by then foreign minister Yigal Alon who expressed great regret that the recommendations were ever written. It provoked controversy within Israel after being leaked to Al Hamishmar, the publication of Israel’s Marxist party, Mapam. Koenig’s recommendations included expanding and strengthening Israel’s Jewish presence in the Galilee, applying legal consequences to Arabs expressing hostility toward the state and Zionism, enforcing tax collection from the Arab sector, cutting family subsidies to Arabs with large families, eliminating preferential acceptance of Arabs into Israeli universities, channeling Arab students into studying the physical and natural sciences rather than humanities, and encouraging young Arabs to study abroad and emigrate. As controversial as Koenig’s proposals were at the time, however, there was absolutely no suggestion of using "terror," "assassination," "intimidation" or "land confiscations."

Summary: Fabricated quote, false source​

How nice it is to see our very own UnityNow101 doing his small part to spread antisemitic filth. Perhaps next we'll be reading selected excerps from the Protocols of Zion.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Thanks. If accurate, they're very disturbing.

You seem pleased. It should be noted, however, that you are more than a capable when it comes to the internet. In the time it took you to express your thanks you could have easily determined that the attribution in question was more likely deserving of repudiation. You made an interesting choice ...

 

[greatcalgarian]

While not forgetting that anti-Zionism is a common façade for anti-Semites.

Try not to mix them up.

 

[UnityNow101]

“The record of Israeli terrorism goes back to the origins of the state — indeed, long before — including the massacre of 250 civilians and brutal expulsion of seventy thousand others from Lydda and Ramle in July 1948; the massacre of hundreds of others at the undefended village of Doueimah near Hebron in October 1948;...the slaughters in Quibya, Kafr Kassem, and a string of other assassinated villages; the expulsion of thousands of Bedouins from the demilitarized zones shortly after the 1948 war and thousands more from northeastern Sinai in the early 1970’s, their villages destroyed, to open the region for Jewish settlement; and on, and on.” Noam Chomsky, “Blaming The Victims,” ed. Said and Hitchens.

“Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs, We come from Israel, it’s true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we came here and stole their country. Why should they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion, quoted in “The Jewish Paradox” by Nathan Goldman, former president of the World Jewish Congress.

“Before [the Palestinians] very eyes we are possessing the land and the villages where they, and their ancestors, have lived...We are the generation of colonizers, and without the steel helmet and the gun barrel we cannot plant a tree and build a home.” Israeli leader Moshe Dayan, quoted in Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi, “Original Sins: Reflections on the History of Zionism and Israel”

 

[UnityNow101]

What did Mahatma Gandhi have to say concerning the Palestinian/Israeli issue?:

“Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French...What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct...If they [the Jews] must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs... As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regard as an unacceptable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds.” Mahatma Gandhi, quoted in “A Land of Two Peoples” ed. Mendes-Flohr.

 

[UnityNow101]

Jay..To simply disregard the quotes because they don't fit your ideas on what happened in Palestine and the expulsion of the Arabs is quite ignorant on your behalf. Bring quotes which support what the Israelis did and how they didn't take the land by force and kick them out of their homes if you speak the truth. Of course I don't know exactly what happened back in 1948 and prior, but I listen to those who were there and know how the State of Israel was brought about. If the Zionists were in the right, bring forward your ideas on why they deserve that land over the Arabs? And how can you justify the expulsion of the Palestinians from their homes through force and terror?

 

[Sunstone]

You seem pleased. It should be noted, however, that you are more than a capable when it comes to the internet. In the time it took you to express your thanks you could have easily determined that the attribution in question was more likely deserving of repudiation. You made an interesting choice ...

You're ascribing motivations to me that suite your purpose, Jay, but which are not accurate. I'm really disappointed that you choose to do so. It reminds me of the perverse willful ignorance you yourself have railled against in other threads. You would do better to address points, rather than speculate on the motives of other members of this forum.

 

[UnityNow101]

Jay believes that anyone that questions the Zionist occupation of Palestine is somehow anti-Semetic. If they hold rights to the land and wish to inhabit it, then more power to them, as I love the Jews just as much as I love the Arabs. But if one looks at the situation with an unbiased eye, they will see that the State of Israel was brought about through the barrel of a gun...They kicked people out of their homes and denied them any rights within the new country. Should that not make people angry? Are we supposed to blindly accept ethnic cleansing and the theft of a people's land simply because they claim it to be a God-given right? Would a just God be for such acts?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You're ascribing motivations to me that suite your purpose, Jay, ...

And what 'purposes' might those be?

The fact remains that I dropped that bit of antisemitic garbage in a search engine and the Camera article was number one in the list of search results. The whole process took no more that 15 seconds, time that you apparently found better served in other pursuits. While it cannot be proved, I suspect that were I to offer something like ...

"The moral inferiority of Black Americans is a direct consequence of their racial inferiority." [Einstein]​

... you would have exerted far more effort to expose the 'quote' as a lie and denounce its propagation. Perhaps I'm wrong; I hope not.

The fact remains that you did nothing of the sort in this case. You made a choice and, apparently, do not appreciate having it noted.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Jay..To simply disregard the quotes because they don't fit your ideas ...

To simply propagate misquotes because they serve yours is gross deceit.