Dawkins’ Belief Scale

[Road Warrior]

Beliefs not based on proof(evidence) can be dismissed w/o proof(evidence).

Anyone can dismiss anything, proof or not. As it is, beliefs are just that, beliefs. When talking about the supernatural or anything external to the natural universe. As Dawkin's readily admits, he only finds the existence of God improbable, but he cannot be certain that nothing exists beyond our physical nature.

 

[outhouse]

S. A. baby and I know it lol

 

[Road Warrior]

If you know it, then you must have proof. Please provide it.

 

[idav]

For the purposes of this poll, God is defined as any singular deity. For instance, YHWH, Jehovah, Allah, Krishna, "First Cause", etc.


Poll courtesy of Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion.

​

Something about the poll doesn't sit right with me so I can't vote. It is mixing the belief with the potential knowledge. I don't even really think atheism is the opposite of theism for that matter. It is simply a different type of theism and is like saying an apple is the opposite of an orange because an apple is not an orange.

 

[Road Warrior]

Good point and agreed. Someone can strongly believe something to be true, but how can they know it to be true without proof? It doesn't matter if their belief encompasses the existence of God or the non-existence of God, they cannot know it without proof. They can only believe it.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

I didn't vote... on account of the God concept referenced to being too vague for a reply (is 'first cause' even a being? or is it a force etc) I rate myself on the Dawkin's scale for a particular God concept (or set thereof) not overall.

It is interesting to note the almost inverse proportion of respondents who are:
Strong Theist : Defacto Theist
Defacto Atheist : Strong Atheist

 

[tumbleweed41]

Something about the poll doesn't sit right with me so I can't vote. It is mixing the belief with the potential knowledge. I don't even really think atheism is the opposite of theism for that matter. It is simply a different type of theism and is like saying an apple is the opposite of an orange because an apple is not an orange.

The point is exactly how one mixes belief with absolute knowledge. Whether Strong Theist or Strong Atheist.

IMHO, the only rational answers are from 2-6, no matter what one believes or disbelieves.

 

[idav]

The point is exactly how one mixes belief with absolute knowledge. Whether Strong Theist or Strong Atheist.

IMHO, the only rational answers are from 2-6, no matter what one believes or disbelieves.

I'm gnostic in terms of knowing being possible.

 

[fantome profane]

Interesting, there are more strong theists than strong atheists, I guess I can use that as evidence for God.

The reason for this is found in your own user name. For many theists "faith" is considered a virtue. They tend to be quite proud of it, even congratulating each other for having "faith". For most atheists it is quite different. They value skepticism and open mindedness.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

The reason for this is found in your own user name. For many theists "faith" is considered a virtue. They tend to be quite proud of it, even congratulating each other for having "faith". For most atheists it is quite different. They value skepticism and open mindedness.

^this

Well said; indeed, those that are actually a true 'strong atheist' (7) are actually quite rare, largely because to be so requires faith, which so many of them find to be unreliable (and why I attempted to point out the almost inverse proportions of 1:2 compared to 7:6), though many of those that classify themselves as 6 or 7 would probably agree with Richard Dawkins on his '6.9' rating.

 

[outhouse]

If you know it, then you must have proof. Please provide it.

known history is all you need.

Its mountain of evidence showing exactly how man created deities as man always has.

The god concept started evolving befopre the people who become Israeli's ever moved there. All the deities used by polytheistic hebrews belong to previous civilizations. then when the hebrews formed and used these manmade previous deities, the deities seriously evolved within judaism, then christianity, then islam, then john smith.

started polytheism, with El, Yahweh, Baal and Asherah and a few others
switched to montheism in 622 BC and strict devotion to yahweh
switched to polythesim with worship of yahweh and jesus and later a ghost
switched to monotheism with the trinity concept
redifined with islam
redifined with john smith


this is all vague and not detailed, but it shows you some of the many ever changing concepts man has given to the concept.

 

[fallingblood]

known history is all you need.

Its mountain of evidence showing exactly how man created deities as man always has.

The god concept started evolving befopre the people who become Israeli's ever moved there. All the deities used by polytheistic hebrews belong to previous civilizations. then when the hebrews formed and used these manmade previous deities, the deities seriously evolved within judaism, then christianity, then islam, then john smith.

started polytheism, with El, Yahweh, Baal and Asherah and a few others
switched to montheism in 622 BC and strict devotion to yahweh
switched to polythesim with worship of yahweh and jesus and later a ghost
switched to monotheism with the trinity concept
redifined with islam
redifined with john smith


this is all vague and not detailed, but it shows you some of the many ever changing concepts man has given to the concept.

What about the Hindu pantheon? Or what about a monistic idea, in which there is one God, but comes in many different forms?

 

[tumbleweed41]

known history is all you need.

Its mountain of evidence showing exactly how man created deities as man always has.

The god concept started evolving befopre the people who become Israeli's ever moved there. All the deities used by polytheistic hebrews belong to previous civilizations. then when the hebrews formed and used these manmade previous deities, the deities seriously evolved within judaism, then christianity, then islam, then john smith.

started polytheism, with El, Yahweh, Baal and Asherah and a few others
switched to montheism in 622 BC and strict devotion to yahweh
switched to polythesim with worship of yahweh and jesus and later a ghost
switched to monotheism with the trinity concept
redifined with islam
redifined with john smith


this is all vague and not detailed, but it shows you some of the many ever changing concepts man has given to the concept.

Not really proof that a some sort of deity does not exist.
Merely proof of mans numerous attempts to anthropomorphize various concepts of deities.

 

[Road Warrior]

known history is all you need.

Its mountain of evidence showing exactly how man created deities as man always has.

Man has always tried to better understand his environment. There's "mountain of evidence showing exactly how man created" tools for this goal. Sometimes his perceptions have been wrong or right, but doing more harm than good such as bleeding someone to rid them of disease or thinking the sound of thunder was the gods bowling. While the scientific method has allowed us to be more logical about how we approach the mysteries of the Universe, it has limitations. It cannot, for example, tell us what happened one second prior to the Big Bang nor the origin of the Singularity. While there are the theories of other universes (multiverses) outside of our own, proving them is difficult.

The honest answer is "We don't know". To say "I know for certain" what did or didn't happen isn't scientific. It's a belief.

 

[outhouse]

Man has always tried to better understand his environment. There's "mountain of evidence showing exactly how man created" tools for this goal. Sometimes his perceptions have been wrong or right, but doing more harm than good such as bleeding someone to rid them of disease or thinking the sound of thunder was the gods bowling. While the scientific method has allowed us to be more logical about how we approach the mysteries of the Universe, it has limitations. It cannot, for example, tell us what happened one second prior to the Big Bang nor the origin of the Singularity. While there are the theories of other universes (multiverses) outside of our own, proving them is difficult.

The honest answer is "We don't know". To say "I know for certain" what did or didn't happen isn't scientific. It's a belief.

that thinking can be faulty


pink unicorns with purple dots might be able to exist at that point.




People worshipping Saturn and calling it a deity, could have been right thinking that way.



Sorry, I see how they created their deities based on what they had to work with, and watched them play with them like children with clay.

 

[outhouse]

Not really proof that a some sort of deity does not exist.
Merely proof of mans numerous attempts to anthropomorphize various concepts of deities.

IMAGINATION

My best example is children, it gives us a glimpse into the human mind. Look at their imagination.

Almost every child out there with no coaching will have imaginary friends, we as a creature are still very very imaginitive. Homo Sapiens have all soft parts and no hard parts for survival in the wild, our imagination is a survival tool to imagine that lion on the grass waiting for us. Imagination is programmed in for our betterment.


While we loose our vivid imagination as we grow up, we still actively use it daily.



The difference is today we see the patterns of our imagination, we also see the patterns we used as ancient people. Deities were created to explaim away the thunder in the sky, the rain and the sea, the volcanos and every other part of nature including death.

 

[outhouse]

What about the Hindu pantheon? Or what about a monistic idea, in which there is one God, but comes in many different forms?

imagination.

remember, people always want their view of god, or the lack of god, to be, simply, right.

 

[Road Warrior]

pink unicorns with purple dots might be able to exist at that point.

It's possible. Schrödinger's cat comes to mind. You'll never know until you open the box.

 

[outhouse]

It's possible. Schrödinger's cat comes to mind. You'll never know until you open the box.

Probablilities show this with a high degree of certainty to be imagination.

I admit to making it up, imagining it if you will


If god existed we would suspeect to see simular attributes in all cultures reporting. The only thing they all have in common, is he remains hidden and never visible.

I have a idea, call it whacky, that the hidden place, is within imagination.

 

[Road Warrior]

imagination.

remember, people always want their view of god, or the lack of god, to be, simply, right.

Correct.