Dawkins planning to arrest the Pope

[angellous_evangellous]

I know that... but my understanding is that it was NEVER tied to a dogma, but was always reffered to as a "gift" or the like...

The understanding that it's a gift [from God] is dogmatic.

(It seems to me that you've provided the answer to your own question - which dogma is celibacy tied to?)

 

[Scott1]

For the last time, I'm referring to celibacy in the way that the Catholic church does. They take celibacy to mean abstinence from all sexual activity, since sexual activity outside of marriage is considered a sin for Catholics.

So you believe it is morally upright to just have sex with anyone and everyone as aften as you like?

Not sure what you believe....

 

[Scott1]

The understanding that it's a gift [from God] is dogmatic.

Gotcha... we have differing definitions of what "dogma" means.....

(It seems to me that you've provided the answer to your own question - which dogma is celibacy tied to?)

It's not:

In general, doctrine is all Church teaching in matters of faith and morals. Dogma is more narrowly defined as that part of doctrine which has been divinely revealed and which the Church has formally defined and declared to be believed as revealed.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains,

The Church’s magisterium exercises the authority it holds from Christ to the fullest extent when it defines dogmas, that is, when it proposes, in a form obliging the Christian people to an irrevocable adherence of faith, truths contained in divine Revelation or also when it proposes, in a definitive way, truths having a necessary connection with these. (CCC 88)​

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

So you believe it is morally upright to just have sex with anyone and everyone as aften as you like?

Not sure what you believe....

I don't believe in any kind of "morality" pretaining to sex between two consenting human beings.

 

[Scott1]

I don't believe in any kind of "morality" pretaining to sex between two consenting human beings.

Gotcha.... I assume you meant to include "adult" in your explaination... hope so.

Hard to discuss this topic with someone without any moral foundation... without one, I would agree that celibacy is a rather odd practice.

 

[Storm]

I don't believe in any kind of "morality" pretaining to sex between two consenting human beings.

None, really? No honesty, no safety, nothing? Like, Scott, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant "adults," but still. I find this hard to believe.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Gotcha.... I assume you meant to include "adult" in your explaination... hope so.

Hard to discuss this topic with someone without any moral foundation... without one, I would agree that celibacy is a rather odd practice.

Two people don't necessarily have to be adults to have consentual sex. If both people know that they want to have sex with eachother, I see no problem at all with it, regardless of their age gap. To me rape is defined as having sex with someone who doesn't want to, I don't believe statutory rape should be filed against someone who had consentual sex.

 

[Storm]

Two people don't necessarily have to be adults to have consentual sex. If both people know that they want to have sex with eachother, I see no problem at all with it, regardless of their age gap. To me rape is defined as having sex with someone who doesn't want to, I don't believe statutory rape should be filed against someone who had consentual sex.

You seriously think a four year old can consent?

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Two people don't necessarily have to be adults to have consentual sex. If both people know that they want to have sex with eachother, I see no problem at all with it, regardless of their age gap. To me rape is defined as having sex with someone who doesn't want to, I don't believe statutory rape should be filed against someone who had consentual sex.

So if a 45 year old man and a 15 year old girl both know they want to have sex. Thats ok in your book.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

You seriously think a four year old can consent?

I didn't say that, I knew someone would say I did though. I don't believe a four-year old has the mental capacity to know they want to have sex. I said if both people know they want to have sex I see nothing wrong with it.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

So if a 45 year old man and a 15 year old girl both know they want to have sex. Thats ok in your book.

Perfectly fine with me

 

[Storm]

I didn't say that, I knew someone would say I did though. I don't believe a four-year old has the mental capacity to know they want to have sex. I said if both people know they want to have sex I see nothing wrong with it.

What about 6? 8? Where do you draw the line?

I believe that the age of consent should be lowered, but that's a far cry from saying it shouldn't exist.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

What about 6? 8? Where do you draw the line?

I believe that the age of consent should be lowered, but that's a far cry from saying it shouldn't exist.

Nature provides us with the cut-off date. People do not have a sex drive until a certain point in their lifetime, I believe at that time there's nothing taboo regarding consentual sex. It's hard to put an exact number on an age of consent, as every person develops differently.

 

[Storm]

Nature provides us with the cut-off date. People do not have a sex drive until a certain point in their lifetime, I believe at that time there's nothing taboo regarding consentual sex.

So, if a girl hits puberty at 8 (not unheard of), she's fair game?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

So, if a girl hits puberty at 8 (not unheard of), she's fair game?

"Fair game" makes it sound like any guy can throw themselves at this girl. I don't look at it that way, but rather that she can throw herself at any male she wants to.

 

[Storm]

"Fair game" makes it sound like any guy can throw themselves at this girl. I don't look at it that way, but rather that she can throw herself at any male she wants to.

So, if a pubescent 8 year old wants to have sex with a 40 year old, that's ok in your book?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

So, if a pubescent 8 year old wants to have sex with a 40 year old, that's ok in your book?

If she wants to, I don't have a problem with it. What other people find attractive is none of my business as long as it's consentual.

 

[Storm]

If she wants to, I don't have a problem with it. What other people find attractive is none of my business as long as it's consentual.

:thud:

 

[Sunstone]

Nature provides us with the cut-off date. People do not have a sex drive until a certain point in their lifetime, I believe at that time there's nothing taboo regarding consentual sex. It's hard to put an exact number on an age of consent, as every person develops differently.

Actually, your position is fairly reasonable. But -- and this is a big "but" -- consent is a complex matter. For instance, a misinformed person cannot, under certain circumstances, be considered to having given genuine consent even if they said "yes". Again, someone who cannot fully weigh the consequences of their actions cannot be said to have given genuine consent either. And since most people cannot fully weigh the consequences of their actions at a young age, the age of consent for most people is not all that young. Late teens at the earliest, on average, I would guess.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Nature provides us with the cut-off date.

[youtube]RBHZFYpQ6nc[/youtube]
YouTube - Fiddler on the roof - If I were a rich man (with subtitles)