Dawkins!

[Autodidact]

Some of the best examples I can think of are Dawkins' books.

Could you be more specific? You seem quite incensed about his bigotry, so I assume that you have specific examples of bigoted statements or actions that made you so angry? Because it's not just because he advocated atheism, right? Just advocating atheism isn't the same thing as intolerance and bigotry, is it?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Does he say that anyone who believes in God is stupid?

Now that you mention it... yes, he does. It appears that I am DELUSIONAL for believing in God. I have ABUSED my kids for teaching them about God. Now please, I and others have pointed out how we think that Dawkins goes BEYOND not believing in God and into actively attacking religions and those who believe in those religions. If you see this as reasonable and not bigoted it tells me a lot about you as a person.

 

[Autodidact]

Saying "Some people believe in God. I don't" is disagreement. Saying that "People who believe in God are delusional" is disrespect. I will stand by that logic regardless of what you say.

And what do you call people who believe things without any evidence?
So the world's many religious books read like this:
Many people don't believe in God or this God. I do...It's my opinion that God...
And saying that people who don't believe in God will go to Hell? What's that?

I think it's very telling that you phrased the question in such a way that either a yes or no answer would still assent to it being described as "indoctrination."

Well, when you take small children, and every day over and over tell them that X is true, that if they don't believe X they're evil and will be punished, that if they believe X they will get wonderful things forever, but if they don't they will get horrible things forever, that good children believe X and follow X rules, and bad children don't--what would you call it? If X was love of Chairman Mao, what would you call it? Let's face it; it works.

 

[Sunstone]

I and others have pointed out how we think that Dawkins goes BEYOND not believing in God and into actively attacking religions and those who believe in those religions.

Pete, do you think there is something wrong with attacking religious ideas? If so, would you say there is also something wrong with attacking political ideas?

 

[Sunstone]

If you believe someone is delusional and you say so, is that the same thing as disrespecting them?

 

[Magic Man]

If you believe someone is delusional and you say so, is that the same thing as disrespecting them?

Not to me. It could be, if done a certain way, but anything could be disrespectful if done a certain way.

 

[Scuba Pete]

If you believe someone is delusional and you say so, is that the same thing as disrespecting them?

One person? No. A group of people? Yes.

 

[Magic Man]

One person? No. A group of people? Yes.

Why does that make a difference? Why is it not disrespectful for one person, but disrespectful for a bunch of people?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Pete, do you think there is something wrong with attacking religious ideas? If so, would you say there is also something wrong with attacking political ideas?

You know, I have many conversations with other "theists" about why I believe in MY God and they believe in theirs. I have conversations with Christians and we often discuss why I am right and they are not. I even have conversations with other Americans about where we feel our country should be going. The only political ideas that I have ever attacked are wars and the use of bigotry. The only thing I really care about with any religion are wars and the use of bigotry. You might begin to notice a pattern here.

 

[matthew.william]

You seem to think that because he disagrees with you, that shows a disrespect for you personally. That is not at all logical.

If I were to say that you were delusional, even though I don't know you personally, would you find that disrespectful? What if I said your way of raising your kids was abusive? Would you find that disrespectful?

Don't you think it's rather telling that the overwhelming majority of religionists believe in whatever religion they were indoctrinated as children?

What are you implying? What's "rather telling" about people keeping their beliefs?

~matthew.william~

 

[Magic Man]

You know, I have many conversations with other "theists" about why I believe in MY God and they believe in theirs. I have conversations with Christians and we often discuss why I am right and they are not. I even have conversations with other Americans about where we feel our country should be going. The only political ideas that I have ever attacked are wars and the use of bigotry. The only thing I really care about with any religion are wars and the use of bigotry. You might begin to notice a pattern here.

Sooo...you do believe there's something wrong with attacking religious ideas, but not with attacking political ideas? Is that what you're saying?

 

[Autodidact]

Now that you mention it... yes, he does. It appears that I am DELUSIONAL for believing in God. I have ABUSED my kids for teaching them about God. Now please, I and others have pointed out how we think that Dawkins goes BEYOND not believing in God and into actively attacking religions and those who believe in those religions. If you see this as reasonable and not bigoted it tells me a lot about you as a person.

You have a quote of Dawkins saying that anyone who believes in God is stupid? Please produce it. Because you would never irresponsibly spread a lie about someone else, right?
No, you haven't pointed out anything. You just keep saying he's a bigot. Can you please quote a single bigoted statement? I would think you would have many of them, since you're so angry about them.
So attacking religion is bigoted then? Well color me bigoted in that case.

To advocate vociferously for one's position is not bigotry. Think of a non-religious example, a disagreement over other ideas, such as politics. If you're arguing for, say gun control, it is no bigotry to say that advocates of second amendment rights are wrong, mistaken, deluded, etc. It's only if you say that they're bad people in some way unrelated to the issue that you're demonstrating bigotry or prejudice.

If you believe that God does not exist, then it follows as the night does the day that you think that anyone who believes He does is deluded.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Because you would never irresponsibly spread a lie about someone else, right?

Of course not. I am not Dawkins and I don't play his games.

 

[Autodidact]

If I were to say that you were delusional, even though I don't know you personally, would you find that disrespectful? What if I said your way of raising your kids was abusive? Would you find that disrespectful?

Not if it was regarding an idea we were discussing, no. To be bigotry, you have to express ideas of prejudice and intolerance toward a group of people.

I think that brainwashing little children into believing that if they don't believe, love and obey a non-existent God is morally wrong. I wish that no one did it, and that all the religionists would stop.

What are you implying? What's "rather telling" about people keeping their beliefs?

Isn't it obvious? Everyone believes that their religion is objectively true and correct. But it just so happens that people who share that belief are those who were brainwashed into it as little children. They don't believe in their religion because of the evidence in its favor. If they had been raised in Peshawar, they would just as fervently believe that Islam was true. It's not because of any objective criteria for truth, such as evidence; they believe what they were taught to believe as children.

I can't believe that's a controversial statement. Why do you think the most telling predictor of someone's religious belief is what religion they were raised in?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Sooo...you do believe there's something wrong with attacking religious ideas, but not with attacking political ideas? Is that what you're saying?

He doesn't attack religious ideas: he attacks religion. He attacks those who are religious.

 

[Autodidact]

Of course not. I am not Dawkins and I don't play his games.

Great. So produce the quotes.
And now you can also quote Richard Dawkins lying.

 

[Autodidact]

Now that you mention it... yes, he does. It appears that I am DELUSIONAL for believing in God. I have ABUSED my kids for teaching them about God. Now please, I and others have pointed out how we think that Dawkins goes BEYOND not believing in God and into actively attacking religions and those who believe in those religions. If you see this as reasonable and not bigoted it tells me a lot about you as a person.

btw, I agree that belief in God is a delusion.

 

[Autodidact]

He doesn't attack religious ideas: he attacks religion. He attacks those who are religious.

Waiting on those quotes, Pete.

 

[Magic Man]

He doesn't attack religious ideas: he attacks religion. He attacks those who are religious.

OK, let's say you're right on that. Is there something wrong with attacking religion, but not with attacking politics?

How does he attack those who are religious, and not religious ideas? Can you provide some examples? That would make it a lot easier to see what you mean.

 

[Storm]

btw, I agree that belief in God is a delusion.

Then I would say you misunderstand what "delusion" means, at best. Delusion is a false belief strongly held in the face of invalidating evidence. There is no invalidating evidence for belief in God.