De Facto Theism/Atheism Does not exist.

[Cacotopia]

If you are truly truly truly honest there is always doubt. Gaps in knowledge on my side leave a possibility of a deity like being possible of existing. But to be fair I do think that I am a de facto atheist in regards to the gods the human race has talked about. Now there could very well be a god out there that doesn't fit any of the descriptions that any human up to date has ever thought about or written about.

Tangent Alert: I mean What if a god came to Earth and decided to have a chat with us lowly mortals. And this god happened to hold nothing similar to to any existing or historically documented poly or monotheistic faith on record. Would ya'll abandon your faiths and worship this suddenly new existing one? Or would you doubt it is a god since it does not fit your description of god?

Plowing Ahead.

Nor can truly honest theists that believe in god, have faith in god say there factually is a god when there is no such evidence to support it's existence, in addition many faiths' dogma clearly dictates that humans are incapable of even comprehending their deity in the first place, so that what ever they think they know, they can't know...which going back to the tangent, Would your incomprehension of this god that was sitting in front of you lead you to think that it was not a god because you talked to it and you and your soul was not utterly destroyed?

 

[Quintessence]

I don't know where to start in responding to your post. It carries with it enough assumptions I find problematic that it don't make sense to me.

 

[Cacotopia]

I don't know where to start in responding to your post. It carries with it enough assumptions I find problematic that it don't make sense to me.

can you with all honesty say that with out a doubt know there is a or is not a god.

 

[Nakosis]

If you are truly truly truly honest there is always doubt. Gaps in knowledge on my side leave a possibility of a deity like being possible of existing. But to be fair I do think that I am a de facto atheist in regards to the gods the human race has talked about. Now there could very well be a god out there that doesn't fit any of the descriptions that any human up to date has ever thought about or written about.

Tangent Alert: I mean What if a god came to Earth and decided to have a chat with us lowly mortals. And this god happened to hold nothing similar to to any existing or historically documented poly or monotheistic faith on record. Would ya'll abandon your faiths and worship this suddenly new existing one? Or would you doubt it is a god since it does not fit your description of god?

Plowing Ahead.

Nor can truly honest theists that believe in god, have faith in god say there factually is a god when there is no such evidence to support it's existence, in addition many faiths' dogma clearly dictates that humans are incapable of even comprehending their deity in the first place, so that what ever they think they know, they can't know...which going back to the tangent, Would your incomprehension of this god that was sitting in front of you lead you to think that it was not a god because you talked to it and you and your soul was not utterly destroyed?

There is personal evidence for most believers for whatever God they believe in. It's feeling based evidence. They feel God's presence or they feel God has answered their prayers. Some even see and speak with God. For many, this personal evidence is enough.

I person has to decide for themselves what level/degree of evidence is necessary to accept something as factual.

For me, if I can prove to any number of people any number of times in any circumstance that something is true I have a pretty high confidence level something is "factual". Still not without the reservations that at some point it might be shown to be untrue.

Something I can't show to anyone else, even though I can consistently experience it as be true for me, I generally don't feel it's worth trying to convince anyone else of it's truth.

Beliefs in God I feel consists of the later.

Also I've seen for myself how often personal experience can untrustworthy.

So for me I fully accept people have had personal experiences with God that are very convincing of God's actuality. I just don't think personal experience is trustworthy enough to bet the farm on, or anything else really.

 

[Nakosis]

can you with all honesty say that with out a doubt know there is a or is not a god.

Personally I don't say that about anything, but if I feel I can show you the truth of something then I have enough confidence in it to tell you it's true.

However, I always leave room for doubt. The universe is a big place. There's probably an infinite number of things that I don't know about the universe that could change what I accept as true.

 

[Altfish]

If you want 100% certainty then, no, I can't say there isn't a god or gods. But I have seen absolutely no evidence of a god, I'm still open to evidence but not holding my breath, so I suppose I'm about 99.5% certain there is no god and I live my life accordingly.

 

[syo]

If you are truly truly truly honest there is always doubt.

The coin always has two sides. Isn't that a good thing?

 

[Sir Doom]

If you are truly truly truly honest there is always doubt.

Including a doubt for my own internal honesty.

Gaps in knowledge on my side leave a possibility of a deity like being possible of existing. But to be fair I do think that I am a de facto atheist in regards to the gods the human race has talked about. Now there could very well be a god out there that doesn't fit any of the descriptions that any human up to date has ever thought about or written about.

Case in point of my previous statement. I feel exactly the way you describe here. But, I cannot determine if this is really a product of honesty with myself so much as an unwillingness to completely abandon what may provide existential surety in the future.

Tangent Alert: I mean What if a god came to Earth and decided to have a chat with us lowly mortals. And this god happened to hold nothing similar to to any existing or historically documented poly or monotheistic faith on record. Would ya'll abandon your faiths and worship this suddenly new existing one? Or would you doubt it is a god since it does not fit your description of god?

A worthwhile thought exercise, but all things being equal can you fathom this God that comes for a chat being Jesus, for example? Personifying a religious ideal you had already dismissed as invalid for one reason or another?

Plowing Ahead.

Nor can truly honest theists that believe in god, have faith in god say there factually is a god when there is no such evidence to support it's existence, in addition many faiths' dogma clearly dictates that humans are incapable of even comprehending their deity in the first place, so that what ever they think they know, they can't know...which going back to the tangent, Would your incomprehension of this god that was sitting in front of you lead you to think that it was not a god because you talked to it and you and your soul was not utterly destroyed?

I don't think anyone would have trouble abandoning religious ideas about God in the face of the real thing. Assuming it was the real thing, of course.

How to assume that, though?

 

[LuisDantas]

can you with all honesty say that with out a doubt know there is a or is not a god.

It is not a matter of honesty nearly as much as it is one of expectation.

 

[Desert Snake]

I believe that there is a God. Actually , various gods. I believe that I know who the God is, who is my God...

Is that de facto? Seems de facto. If you are assuming that I don't have reasons for my belief, it might seem like it's not de facto.

 

[Quintessence]

can you with all honesty say that with out a doubt know there is a or is not a god.

Yes. I also never ask the question "does this exist," because the answer is always "yes" if I'm even asking the question.

 

[Cacotopia]

Yes. I also never ask the question "does this exist," because the answer is always "yes" if I'm even asking the question.

So when alert Christians talks about his "Grip and Rip" method for casting out demons of 'sexual' nature you think that exists?

 

[Cacotopia]

The coin always has two sides. Isn't that a good thing?

According to physics there is a 'both' sides as well.

 

[Quintessence]

So when alert Christians talks about his "Grip and Rip" method for casting out demons of 'sexual' nature you think that exists?

I meant precisely what I said. Keep in mind that "exists" does not necessarily mean or imply what you think it does.

In any case, this isn't really relevant. To try and connect it around, "exists" is a construct as is "god." Each individual gets to decide what those terms mean for themselves, and apply them as they see fit. Doubt (either in oneself or in others) is not an inevitable component of that process. Nor is this process necessarily related to honesty; I don't see the point in making such character judgements.

 

[Cacotopia]

I meant precisely what I said. Keep in mind that "exists" does not necessarily mean or imply what you think it does.

In any case, this isn't really relevant. To try and connect it around, "exists" is a construct as is "god." Each individual gets to decide what those terms mean for themselves, and apply them as they see fit. Doubt (either in oneself or in others) is not an inevitable component of that process. Nor is this process necessarily related to honesty; I don't see the point in making such character judgements.

I wasn't trying to patronize you but give a current example to better understand. Please don't take that the wrong way.

 

[Cacotopia]

Like a thought exists, but the thought doesn't exactly exist in reality. Like a fantasy, I have a fantasy sometimes that I am a cyborg like the ones in Deus Ex. Yeah it's childish, whatever. But it exists because I* thought it, is that what you are talking about?

Like a lucid dream or a world you live in while you dream. anything can exist in there, I can do whatever I want in the dream state.

 

[Quintessence]

Like a thought exists, but the thought doesn't exactly exist in reality. Like a fantasy, I have a fantasy sometimes that I am a cyborg like the ones in Deus Ex. Yeah it's childish, whatever. But it exists because I* thought it, is that what you are talking about?

Like a lucid dream or a world you live in while you dream. anything can exist in there, I can do whatever I want in the dream state.

More or less. Basically, I find it weird to call things that we can experience and know - and consequently can strongly influence us - "not real" or "not existing." I understand the common colloquial does not reflect this; I just don't agree with it. It's been something of a running theme in my life to take the arts seriously - to view so-called fictional universes as just another plane of reality we can get to know. The ways we can experience these other planes are limited, but then... so are the ways we can experience the apparent world (what most call the "real" world).

Also, I've been playing Deus Ex: Human Revolution lately. Reminds me of how amazing those games are.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

If you are truly truly truly honest there is always doubt. Gaps in knowledge on my side leave a possibility of a deity like being possible of existing. But to be fair I do think that I am a de facto atheist in regards to the gods the human race has talked about. Now there could very well be a god out there that doesn't fit any of the descriptions that any human up to date has ever thought about or written about.

Tangent Alert: I mean What if a god came to Earth and decided to have a chat with us lowly mortals. And this god happened to hold nothing similar to to any existing or historically documented poly or monotheistic faith on record. Would ya'll abandon your faiths and worship this suddenly new existing one? Or would you doubt it is a god since it does not fit your description of god?

Plowing Ahead.

Nor can truly honest theists that believe in god, have faith in god say there factually is a god when there is no such evidence to support it's existence, in addition many faiths' dogma clearly dictates that humans are incapable of even comprehending their deity in the first place, so that what ever they think they know, they can't know...which going back to the tangent, Would your incomprehension of this god that was sitting in front of you lead you to think that it was not a god because you talked to it and you and your soul was not utterly destroyed?

How do we know he's a god? Is he performing acts of miracles or is it just some random dude claiming to be a God?