Dealing with the over zealous?

[doppelganger]

Which is why I don't practice religion.

You don't? Tell me then, how do people "get into 'Heaven'" and how do you know?

 

[Thief]

You don't? Tell me then, how do people "get into 'Heaven'" and how do you know?

I believe in life after death.

For that life to be more than this one, several things shift.
Here, I am encumbered by this body.
Gravity holds me down. Falling down hurts. I bleed.
I need to breath, and having to catch my breath slows me down.
My strength is subject to my diet and practice.
And so on.

When this body fails all of this suffering goes with it.

Then it will be done unto me as I have done unto others.

Such is heaven.

 

[Thief]

Great, so "heaven" is just dying. Where's the "life after" part? And since this doesn't address the question I asked before, let me ask it again:

Tell me then, how do people "get into 'Heaven'" and how do you know?

Okay...you missed it...let me throw it at you again.

I believe in life...after.....death.

That is where you will find heaven.
It is not of this world.

When you get there....
It will be done unto you as you did unto others.
If you were generous unto your fellow man,
then you will be received in the same way, by each one in heaven.

As for the guy that blacked my eye and kicked me when I went down....
Each of my brothers will greet him in the same way....
as many times as I have brothers.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...
is more than a code of behavior.
It is fair warning.

 

[Eliot Wild]

I believe in life...after.....death.

That is where you will find heaven.
It is not of this world.

When you get there....
It will be done unto you as you did unto others.
If you were generous unto your fellow man,
then you will be received in the same way, by each one in heaven.

However, we have all engaged in kind and cruel behavior. Most people have at least sometimes treated others unfairly. We have all most certainly been selfish, on occassions, especially when we were children. I have never met a two-year old who didn't think everything in sight wasn't "mine, mine, mine."

And I daresay even Hitler had his moments of kindness and caring.

I give you credit for this imaginative vision of the afterlife, but it seems to me that it fails to consider mankind's capacity to change over time. Sometimes we are selfish, unfair and cold. Other times we can be generous, tolerant and compassionate.

Also, what about the person who has a sincere change of heart right before dying?

As for the guy that blacked my eye and kicked me when I went down....
Each of my brothers will greet him in the same way....
as many times as I have brothers.

I'm sorry. I certainly don't mean to be offensive, but I find this hilarious. Do you honestly think heaven is a place where you and your friends wait to waylay everybody that mistreated you in this life? Is your idea of heaven a place where you get to stage the perfect ambush?

Look, I certainly hope the people who have done me wrong get some sort of punishment, especially the s-o-b that cut me off in traffic this morning and proceeded to drive fifteen miles under the speed limit for the next three-quarters of a mile . . . I mean, come on, if he wasn't in a hurry, why cut people off?

More than that, however, I hope they learn how to behave more ethically or morally, whichever the case may be. As a matter of fact, I hereby forgive everyone who has ever done me wrong. I really hold no grudge and could care less if they are punished, everyone except for that non-driving piece of-- Okay, I forgive and pardon him as well. I would like them, however, to come to understand why their actions were wrong.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...
is more than a code of behavior.
It is fair warning

Again, I just find this comical. So, the whole purpose of the Christian afterlife, as you see it, is to carry out personal vendetta's you didn't get to accomplish here on Earth?

I'm just kidding, man. You probably aren't saying that; more likely, I'm sure, I am just misunderstanding you. But, that is certainly what it sounds like to me.





...

 

[Thief]

However, we have all engaged in kind and cruel behavior. Most people have at least sometimes treated others unfairly. We have all most certainly been selfish, on occassions, especially when we were children. I have never met a two-year old who didn't think everything in sight wasn't "mine, mine, mine."


And I daresay even Hitler had his moments of kindness and caring.
And this takes away the concentration camps?

I give you credit for this imaginative vision of the afterlife, but it seems to me that it fails to consider mankind's capacity to change over time. Sometimes we are selfish, unfair and cold. Other times we can be generous, tolerant and compassionate.

Also, what about the person who has a sincere change of heart right before dying?

Like that Thief who hung beside the Carpenter?
Of course he knew the consequence for his life style...and said so.
That the Carpenter favored him?...I'm not surprised.

I'm sorry. I certainly don't mean to be offensive, but I find this hilarious. Do you honestly think heaven is a place where you and your friends wait to waylay everybody that mistreated you in this life? Is your idea of heaven a place where you get to stage the perfect ambush?

Actually, it's quite serious.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...is fair warning.
Have you any siblings?
If your siblings come home...wounded...what do you do?
What if heaven really is a brotherhood?

Look, I certainly hope the people who have done me wrong get some sort of punishment, especially the s-o-b that cut me off in traffic this morning and proceeded to drive fifteen miles under the speed limit for the next three-quarters of a mile . . . I mean, come on, if he wasn't in a hurry, why cut people off?

More than that, however, I hope they learn how to behave more ethically or morally, whichever the case may be. As a matter of fact, I hereby forgive everyone who has ever done me wrong. I really hold no grudge and could care less if they are punished, everyone except for that non-driving piece of-- Okay, I forgive and pardon him as well. I would like them, however, to come to understand why their actions were wrong.

This is fine. but how far can you go with it....seven times seventy?

Again, I just find this comical. So, the whole purpose of the Christian afterlife, as you see it, is to carry out personal vendetta's you didn't get to accomplish here on Earth?

Not vendetta. Simply doing unto them as they did unto others.
If you misbehave here in this world...and felt fine about it....
then you would have no complaint when handled the same way.

I'm just kidding, man. You probably aren't saying that; more likely, I'm sure, I am just misunderstanding you. But, that is certainly what it sounds like to me.

...

There would be some leniency, and dealt to you as you did for others.

I might ask....as it seems you are amused...
Do you expect to...'crossover'?

 

[Eliot Wild]

There would be some leniency, and dealt to you as you did for others.

I might ask....as it seems you are amused...
Do you expect to...'crossover'?

Actually, in all honesty with all jokes aside . . . I have absolutely no idea. I find no conclusive proof that God exists. However, conversely, I find no conclusive proof that He doesn't. I find compelling evidence both ways, but nothing ultimately conclusive.

I operate as an agnostic, sitting the fence. Simply because of the way my mind operates, I can't commit to a belief in something or against it, if I lack sufficent knowledge about it. And personally, I don't think God expects me to. But I could be wrong about that and all the Christians who believe differently than me might be correct.

However, I don't believe in "salvation", at least not as it is proposed by most popularized modern versions of Christianity.

I believe Jesus was on to something. I believe it is absolutely true that it is good for me to treat people with compassion. I believe it is true that I should treat people the way that I'd want to be treated. I believe Jesus focused on the right things such as love, peace, tolerance, generosity, mercy, and I also believe that since we are all flawed it is inappropriate for any of us to cast judgments against another.

But, I am not so certain that Jesus was divine. I find compelling evidence in his favor, but I will not submit to a belief out of fear of death, hell or anything else, nor will I submit simply from not finding anything better to believe in.

I simply don't believe Heaven or salvation to be that important. I am more concerned with how to treat people while I pass this way, not what heaven might have in store.

 

[Thief]

You're closer to heaven than most.
Your faith is stronger than you think.