Death by anorexia

[ayani]

Really? Please, share your thoughts! I won't debate, I promise. I'm just curious!

well... i think lust is a very much over-rated, over-marketed, over-exploited feeling. it's become a matter of anxiety if one does not go out in public looking sexy, or looking in a way that may not attract lustful attention. i find that pretty dentremental and silly. making an effort to look nice and clean is different from making an effort to look sexually attractive. i don't find lust needed to have a good relationship with another person- in fact, i find it can distract one from another's more subtle qualities and distract from friendship.

 

[standing_alone]

It's human nature.

No argument here.

And the physical only works for a first impression. Once you get to know someone, you will find them attractive or not and very little of it is then based on the physical

True, but first impressions are seldom reliable about a person anyways. To see beauty as something solely physical is rather shallow. I don't understand praising someone for good looks alone because they so happened to be born with appealing, symmetrical features. More beatiful are the good characteristics people have control over, like kindness. Too bad those aren't stressed more by popular society. Instead, rather we'd starve our women (and men) so we find them to be of a sickly, but somehow twistedly-appealing standard of beauty. It's this stressing of these unrealistic physical features (extreme slimness) that leads people to starve themselves. Again, it's a shame that good character isn't as stressed as much as good looks in society.

Don't misunderstand me. I appreciate physical beauty as well, but it seems so often the other aspects of beauty are all but ignored. Also, our standards of physical beauty lead many into unhealthy situations, which I think warrants bringing into question our current standards (i.e. Are they realistic?).

 

[Djamila]

Cultural preference does play a big role, as well, though. Women in many African countries are considered more attractive when they are obese because it is a sign of prosperity.

In northern Bosnia, a woman like me is the desire. My grandmother, when she still lived in her village there, turned away more families and boys asking if I was yet married than she can remember.

Just 30 minutes away, now I'm not exaggerating - it's just 30 minutes drive away, across the Croatian border and into Dalmatia... and I might as well be a donkey. My tan skin makes the men sick, my Muslim make-up makes them rude. My black hair makes them roll their eyes.

So culture can play a big thing.

But I still think there is no culture where anorexic is the demand. I would swear on my life that if you took these super-skinny models and put them in a normal dance club, they'd get no one much more than an enormous woman would.

 

[Djamila]

well... i think lust is a very much over-rated, over-marketed, over-exploited feeling. it's become a matter of anxiety if one does not go out in public looking sexy, or looking in a way that may not attract lustful attention. i find that pretty dentremental and silly. making an effort to look nice and clean is different from making an effort to look sexually attractive. i don't find lust needed to have a good relationship with another person- in fact, i find it can distract one from another's more subtle qualities and distract from friendship.

I actually agree, in terms of a friendship. With a relationship, I will replace the word "lust" with the word "passion" and say - in my opinion, there has to be sexual passion in a good relationship.

But very good points, and a very admirable view.

 

[Djamila]

It's kind of amazing, though, how important these sorts of things are. This photo is from TD, and it's a typical magazine rack in Bosnia:

You have, in the top row, JOY and AZRA, both beauty and entertainment news magazines.

Then you have Cosmo Bosnian Edition, Svijet, and other strictly beauty magazines.

Then you have culture/pop culture news magazines not dedicated to beauty but focussed significantly on it.

Then you have intelligent magazines like Phoenix.

And at the bottom of the pile you have the daily news.

I think that says a lot.

 

[Buttercup]

Mila,

I've been meaning to ask you a couple of questions about beauty in Bosnia.

I thought America was obsessed with looks but I think Bosnians have us beat.

Are men as obsessed as women in your country about looks? Not so much about themselves but in women?

Do women who are not good looking commit suicide more often? I'm half serious really but it seems like it would be a tragedy in your country if a woman was ugly.

With the obsession with looks.....it seems that when a woman starts to get older men would flock to the younger girls. Is that a problem? When a society places so much value on appearance...I would think women would worry about growing older.

Is this fascination with beauty a recent fad or has it been part of your culture for years and years?

 

[Djamila]

Are men as obsessed as women in your country about looks? Not so much about themselves but in women?

I'd say no. I mean, a man likes a nice looking woman, of course... but they're not as picky as the women are.

Do women who are not good looking commit suicide more often? I'm half serious really but it seems like it would be a tragedy in your country if a woman was ugly.

Yes and no. We have a high suicide rate, they say 1/3 Bosnians suffers from a mental illness. There have been a lot of young ladies who were disfigured, burned, lost limbs, and so on during the war that took their own lives. But there's been a lot of super-hot ones that did the same thing? So... I don't have any evidence whatsoever for this question, but if I had to make an informed guess... I would say it might have an effect in some cases, but when you're dealing with the aftermath of genocide, it doesn't really amount to much.

With the obsession with looks.....it seems that when a woman starts to get older men would flock to the younger girls. Is that a problem? When a society places so much value on appearance...I would think women would worry about growing older.

Well... divorce is very, very rare in Bosnia. The option of having a mistress is... more common than in the US, less common that in France. I would say no to the question.

Is this fascination with beauty a recent fad or has it been part of your culture for years and years?

Yes and no. It's always existed, same as it is in Italy, Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro, etc, etc, etc...

But the war made a very, very big change. War made it... patriotic? There is a memorial in Sarajevo that says a quote by one girl: "But although death is all around us, we girls still try to look good. Our way of fighting is to look beautiful and to show to those beasts that are killing us that youth and life will triumph over death."

But even back before the war, it was the normal thing... (even though the clothes were hideous in the 70s/80s - lol)

 

[Buttercup]

Yes and no. We have a high suicide rate, they say 1/3 Bosnians suffers from a mental illness. There have been a lot of young ladies who were disfigured, burned, lost limbs, and so on during the war that took their own lives. But there's been a lot of super-hot ones that did the same thing? So... I don't have any evidence whatsoever for this question, but if I had to make an informed guess... I would say it might have an effect in some cases, but when you're dealing with the aftermath of genocide, it doesn't really amount to much.

UGH! This information is so incredibly sad....I honestly wish I could hug everyone...sincerely I do. I hate for people to hurt. Inside and out.

"But although death is all around us, we girls still try to look good. Our way of fighting is to look beautiful and to show to those beasts that are killing us that youth and life will triumph over death."

I can completely understand this mindset and find it admirable. It shows strength and optimism and besides...what else can you do but try to make yourself feel good in a horrible situation?

Thanks for answering the questions, Mila!

 

[Djamila]

I came across some additional information that might be interesting to you, Buttercup.

Hungary, which you may know is near Bosnia and has a vaguely similar culture, has the highest suicide rate in the world. And they had no war, nothing of this nature.

There is an element in Hungarian society that does not openly say, but hints that suicide is a culturally accepted way of dealing with certain problems. This sounds very strange, but it existed in many countries for a long time. In Bosnia, for example, although suicide was rare one of the main reasons for it was a woman not wishing to marry the family to which she had been promised. There are numerous legends about real women who did this. Fata of Visegrad who jumped off a bridge during her wedding procession, Safika of Banja Luka who threw herself in her wedding gown on a cannon just before it fired in celebration. These are legends, yes - but the bare facts that these real women killed themselves for these real reasons are known.

Now my point is this... a young woman in Hungary is several times more likely to commit suicide than a young man. Almost all suicides happen in the 20s-40s age range. Of the women who kill themselves, almost all are poor, almost all are single. There's no mention of "beauty", how could you measure such a thing anyways...

But believe me, poor and beautiful doesn't last long in East Europe, if you know what I mean. Hehehe. If they were knockouts, they'd be mafia, businessman wives - whatever else. Actually exchange wives for "domestic slaves"...

So I think from that I would feel comfortable in saying, in Hungary, it has a significant impact.

 

[Buttercup]

Now my point is this... a young woman in Hungary is several times more likely to commit suicide than a young man. Almost all suicides happen in the 20s-40s age range. Of the women who kill themselves, almost all are poor, almost all are single. There's no mention of "beauty", how could you measure such a thing anyways...

Yes I think you bring up a good point about suicide being more culturally acceptable in some countries which is doubly tragic really. Women suffer from depression more than men statistically and then when you throw in poverty it ups the odds even more. You are such a strong, lovely woman who has battled through terrible times with grace and courage. You are surely a fine example of the resiliency of a human spirit. It is hard work though I know.....:hug:

 

[kiwimac]

It's sad that she couldn't overcome her problem, and hopefully her death can shock some people into getting the help they need.

Karen Carpetner's death didn't shock enough back in the 70's. I hope this one will but, I doubt it.

 

[klubbhead024]

In this day and age with all the information people have, I'm not quite sure why someone could do this to themselves. I have no sympathy... she knew what she was doing and what the consequences should be... oh well for her.