Debate a Muslim

[Meow Mix]

Continued from the last post.

- I would say the only Pro of individualism is free degeneracy; which isn't really a pro to me at least. Decadence is a human condition that all civilizations & all nations go through after long periods of prosperity, yet it is their last stop. Stability leads to saving, which drive consumption, which initiates demand for luxury, which drives innovation, which leads to prosperity, & then further luxury, resulting in indulgence, from there decadence, decadence induces corruption. That is death.

I think this is a bias on your part. I have biases too, so that's not a condemnation, just an observation.

The pros of individualism exist when they're in harmony with collectivism (and I would say the same for the reverse). People are very varied, and there are many variations of people that are not harmful, but different from what might be the majority of the society around them. Individualism gives us the ability to live our lives in a way that we enjoy while contributing to society.

For instance, you describe a society where I would be a second class citizen as a non-Muslim, as a lesbian. I would fear being able to exist with someone I truly loved from the bottom of my heart. In a society with a little more individualism, I would be free to love whom I will, yet still contribute to society (such as by being a scientist). This separation of private life from public life seems important for giving people a chance to live healthy and happy lives.

I should be able to have a home with a woman I love and wave to my Muslim neighbor, and respect them while they respect me. The world is full of awful people of course (in any society) so it's impossible to get a completely rosy picture no matter what we do; but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

- Prescription. The whole purpose of the agenda is to make contraception & abortion readily available to everyone with no questions asked. That little girl who's in her sexual prime with other boys in middle school or high school will never consider having sex knowing pregnancy will follow. She will be tempted though if she knows otherwise. Without these options, girls will naturally grow mature enough & chaste enough to pursue family.

That's better than nothing, I suppose. There are good medical and convenience reasons for it after all.

- It's not really liberation. It's wholly about sex, nothing else.

I don't think it's only about sex. Women should be free to have careers, decide when and if they want children, and yes, should be able to have sex if they desire without pregnancy. I would never be happy in a world where I was expected to marry a man whom I feel no attraction for (perhaps I could love him deeply Platonically), where I was expected to have children, where I wasn't free to delve into my research and learn about the universe full-time. In the USA we use the pejorative "barefoot and pregnant" for women that are stuck in banal existences that they may not even choose (if someone chooses it without coercion, more power to them).

 

[Aupmanyav]

- Rationally, the cause is a necessary being –for otherwise it itself is an event, which can only be singular. Since it's different from the world, then it's transcendent. Since it's the cause of all the world, then it's absolute. Hence, the singular absolute necessary transcendent being, defined as God. – Scripturally, Allah is defined as singular absolute necessary transcendent being, from Quran surah 112:

I hope you realize that Quran is a proof only for Muslims.
For most of the Earth's history of 4.7 billion years, Earth was brainless. Brain developed only about 700 million years ago in a Planairan (flatworm, class Turbellaria, Planarian - Wikipedia, The brain of the planarian as the ancestor of the human brain - PubMed)

With all that we know now, creation of the universe by God is absolutely irrational (Universe - Wikipedia). Of course, the Seventh Century people knew nothing about that, and therefore, credited the creation of the universe to an imaginary entity, God or Allah.

 

[Aupmanyav]

- I wonder! You should ask all those dozens of millions of kids as young as 8 in your countries having open out-of-wedlock sex like it's Valentine day every day.

Yeah, please do.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sex...hUKEwilpvGM-YnyAhXMxIsBHXYfAzYQ4dUDCAc&uact=5

 

[oldbadger]

- You told no lie, indeed.

- Then we would having a Fiqh lecture instead, not a Forum discussion.

Nope. You'll never be a truly wise teacher until you can communicate.
The Quran and the laws which Muhammad embraced from the Old Testament are crystal clear, once you realise that they just produced a strong, invincible people....if followed.

- Cool...

- Are you for the Bible or against? Seems like you contract yourself!

I'll bet that English is probably your third or fourth language.
By saying that I am so impressed by the Old laws, this is no contradiction. Back then and in those times they were all perfect laws. Exact.
But the law that required all roofs to be buttressed was as important as the law which banned eating carrion, or shellfish; break those laws and people would die or be seriously injured... or the law that required closed couples having strong children, and no outside sex of any kind...

So the laws which protected the poor (tribal cohesion of all) were as important as the adultery or gay laws. No law could send you to hell if you broke it, but you sure could get hurt, sick, weakened... no good for a growing people who wanted to survive.

Even the dress codes were important, for cohesion, control, and most importantly for security. Somebody was once making fun of Jewish dress codes so I stuck up a picture of a ceremony in our House of Commons...... no problem!

 

[viole]

He's trying to provoke you. He did the same to me. I wouldn't feed into it. He hates the West and Western people, judging from his vitriol. He's an Islamic supremacist, it seems. If I'm wrong, he can surely correct me (I await another torrent of hate and insults, lol).

I know, but I like to be provoked

Ciao

- viole

 

[Shakeel]

If you mean Ta'zeer, any public sin can conceivably be punishable or regulated by Ta'zeer or Hisba. How is that relevant here?

You said it isn't penalized, but it is.

 

[Shakeel]

No problem. Since you dont know I will tell you in English. I only said it in arabic because you quoted arabic words.

Actually you tend to use Arabic with everybody because if they don't understand you, they can't know how empty your arguments are.

 

[Harel13]

*Mod post: Thread closed for review*​