Debate: If God exists, why does God allow so much suffering?

[Flat Earth Kyle]

OK, so can you tell me how they interpret it, so we can just establish your bottom line, that's all, and if your bottom line is their bottom line, that is fine. Campeche?

They interpret it through the power of God. God tells them what it means through revelation.

 

[fishy]

i wouldnt put it the way you've put it, but i would say it will be the simple case of the lion changing its eating habits so as to not be a predator of the lamb.

Just a simple matter of replacing it's entire digestive system, let me know how that works out.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Then YOU, yaddoe, are making assumptions, since YOU are the one who clearly and without question stated that the lion laying with the lamb symbolized peace. Perhaps you are confused, or just plain forgot. That's OK. We all need guidance at times. :slap:

I said that, but that is because it was taught to me by people with authority.
It wasn't an assumption.

 

[godnotgod]

They interpret it through the power of God. God tells them what it means through revelation.

OMG!

Yaddoe, please: When I asked 'How did they interpret it?", I did not mean the method of their interpretation; I meant the meaning of it. )(

 

[godnotgod]

I said that, but that is because it was taught to me by people with authority.
It wasn't an assumption.

OK....and how do YOU determine that these 'people with authority' in which you place so much trust, have the authentic and correct interpretation?

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

OMG!

Yaddoe, please: When I asked 'How did they interpret it?", I did not mean the method of their interpretation; I meant the meaning of it. )(

Oh, sorry, they interpreted it to be peace.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

OK....and how do YOU determine that these 'people with authority' in which you place so much trust, have the authentic and correct interpretation?

I studied it out, and asked God if it was true, and he confirmed the authenticity of it to me through the power of the Holy Ghost.

 

[godnotgod]

i wouldnt put it the way you've put it, but i would say it will be the simple case of the lion changing its eating habits so as to not be a predator of the lamb.

Now, much of what makes a lion what it is, is the the beast's nature of being a meat-eater, which entails a wide range of associated behavior. Without the eating of meat and all that goes with that, is the beast any longer a real lion, or merely the form of a lion?

the scritpures do say that that lion will 'eat straw just like the lamb does'

Yes, my dear, of course that is what the scriptures SAY, along with the idea that the lion will lay down with the lamb. What I have been saying, dear, is that lions NEVER lay down with lambs, nor do thy eat straw. It is not in the nature of being a lion to lay down with lambs, nor in the nature of lambs to lay down with lions. For that to occur, in both cases, their natures as lion and lamb would have to somehow be suspended. Is that correct?

 

[godnotgod]

Hmmmm? Do lions have an 'inner lamb', while lambs possess an 'inner lion'. Just sayin'...

 

[godnotgod]

I studied it out, and asked God if it was true, and he confirmed the authenticity of it to me through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Aaah! So it was YOU who made the final decision!:shout

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Aaah! So it was YOU who made the final decision!:shout

Did I say that it was me who made the final decision? No, if it was me what would be the point in asking?

 

[Pegg]

Yes, my dear, of course that is what the scriptures SAY, along with the idea that the lion will lay down with the lamb. What I have been saying, dear, is that lions NEVER lay down with lambs, nor do thy eat straw. It is not in the nature of being a lion to lay down with lambs, nor in the nature of lambs to lay down with lions. For that to occur, in both cases, their natures as lion and lamb would have to somehow be suspended. Is that correct?

wild animals can be tamed and trained and domesticated....if God wants to change the nature of any animals, im sure he can...he can change human nature so why couldnt he change animal nature?

 

[godnotgod]

Did I say that it was me who made the final decision? No, if it was me what would be the point in asking?

You have free will to accept or not accept what your authorities (prophets or Holy Ghost) dictate to you. The final decision as to whether their dictates are true or not rests with YOU. The real question is what you base your decision upon, and, in this case, it appears pretty strongly that you ASSUME, for whatever reason, that their authority is absolute. But that decision rests with you, and no one else.

 

[godnotgod]

wild animals can be tamed and trained and domesticated....if God wants to change the nature of any animals, im sure he can...he can change human nature so why couldnt he change animal nature?

Excuse me, Pegg, but training and domesticating an animal species is very different from God intervening and waving a magic wand. Essentially, what you are doing, is creating a convenient magician to do what you want him to do in order to fit your doctrine. Once created, your convenient deux ex machina can, of course, do ANYTHING you wish, especially where you are confronted with an issue that cannot be solved in rational terms, as is the current issue of lions laying with lambs.

You had stated that there was a precedent to this in the earlier Garden of Eden, where animals allegedly lived in peace with one another. But does that make any kind of real sense, Peg? God creates lions and other predators and then waves his wand to transform them into benign creatures. What for? To ornament his Garden? Come now.

I think you have an artificial view of what peace actually is. Perfect peace can exist in a world filled with conflict and suffering and lions who are simply following their lion nature (which is how God created them, in your context). The animal world is on a certain level of consciousness, where you are either predator or victim. That is their lot. The realization of spiritual peace is on a higher level of consciousness. It is an ignorant view to think that one can arbitrarily and artificially suspend natural instincts in order for peace to be a reality.

Did not Yeshu demonstrate to you that a being of perfect peace can live in a world filled with hatred, jealousy, greed, and other conflicts, in spite of the fact that it was this same world which crucified him?

 

[godnotgod]

I studied it out, and asked God if it was true, and he confirmed the authenticity of it to me through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Oh, sorry, they interpreted it to be peace.

OK, so can we now state, without question, that the meaning of the scripture which alludes to lions laying with lambs is crystal clear?)(

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Because suffering is a subjective point of view? I know that I'm not that well off, but compared to others, say of some African tribe that is struggling to hold onto indigenous identity and encroachments of Western society, I know that in the grander scheme of things I really don't have it that bad. There are even accounts of Jews in Holocaust camps that instead of reveling in self-pity they tried as hard as they could to comfort others, even if it meant giving their daily "food" to another person.
It should be apparent to everyone there is no cosmic justice. There is no such thing as a "just world." But things that happen just happen, for one reason or another. What we call suffering exists only because one person looks upon another and draws comparisons. Without this notion of us being able to compare, our-selves to another, or even some stranger to another, suffering cannot exist. We can feel pain and isolation, but the very idea of suffering is dependent upon our ability to compare.

 

[fishy]

OK, so can we now state, without question, that the meaning of the scripture which alludes to lions laying with lambs is crystal clear?)(

Did the lion bring the crystals? Be careful I have it from him himself that the lions have been making their own counterfeit crystals for years.:takeabow:

 

[godnotgod]

Without this notion of us being able to compare, our-selves to another, or even some stranger to another, suffering cannot exist. We can feel pain and isolation, but the very idea of suffering is dependent upon our ability to compare.

...which is also the springboard to transforming personal suffering into unselfish action. Once you understand the nature of your own suffering, you understand the nature of the suffering of everyman. This is the root of compassion and the desire to end suffering.

 

[PolyHedral]

What we call suffering exists only because one person looks upon another and draws comparisons.

We can compare against our own imagination.

 

[idav]

We can compare against our own imagination.

Right, I don't have to see someone lose an appendage to know we don't want that happening to us. It does make it a bit more vivid seeing it and much more vivid actually experiencing it.