Debating mental illness and gun violence

[Epic Beard Man]

Please also give critical thought to the potential stigmitization and discouragement for seeking help that such laws could impact.

The thing is there is no stigmatization on seeking help in relation to gun laws.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I don't want to derail the OP with another general debate on gun control.

Concerning the OP, let the experts define the proper processes. Don't let a policy that was defined centuries ago with no knowledge of psychological health define it now. Amend it to meet the times!

If you're the expert then what do you think? Just don't please just state the current policies as if its some kind of bible. I want medical opinions, not an interpretation of the second amendment.

Medical opinions on what in particular?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

To be fair to you, I wouldn't support a gun free zone in California if it can't control its borders and aren't willing to enforce all the current laws.

That's not gun control at all. This is why Chicago is failing.

Jesus another Trump related commented...Unless you live here especially in SoCal this opinion is really moot.

 

[Stanyon]

Gun free just allows the gangs to terrorize more

I call B.S, understanding that it is in the best interest of society overall gangs will:
-Turn in all illegal weapons
-Stop selling drugs
- Demand that port authorities check every single shipping container and will refuse any shipments of drugs and or weapons/parts.

It's a fantasy world filled with funny little frogs with magical little hats held together with cotton candy and fairy string- I will leave now, I'm not being helpful.

 

[Stevicus]

As social workers when examining a client's case, we often perform what we call a psychosocial on the client, gathering as much information regarding the client's psychological profile, social behaviors, and other pertinent information. As of late, in relation to the recent school shooting, I've been reading a few scholarly articles on any correlation between mental disorders, and gun violence. Now, as someone who is involved in the psychiatric field of social work, I will say professionally there is a high incidence of those who suffer from severe depression, are highly at risk of in home violence when guns are readily available. By readily available, I'm referring to easy access. When it comes to mental disorders one thing we need to get clear, 1 and every 4 persons walking this earth is suffering from a mental disorder.

When talking about mental disorders wee need to understand there are levels concerning disorders from minor ones like generalized anxiety disorder, to clinical depression. But a general understanding of mental disorders typically refers to the behavior and/or mental pattern that causes distress or impairment of personal functioning. DSM typically allocates severity based on the progression and duration of the symptoms (a baseline is usually 6 months). But when it comes to gun violence and looking at mental disorders how can we have a debate concerning the subject without violating someone's constitutional rights? What makes a person not allowed to own a gun with a mental disorder? Are wee looking at school shootings as a litmus test to draw the line on gun ownership when one has a mental disorder?

If I have bipolar disorder and it is controlled through various medications and behavioral therapy, why would I be restricted to own a gun in comparison to someone with a mild case of generalized anxiety disorder? Certainly this is a slippery slope. On one end we are trying to circumvent the deaths of people both in the home and outside, but we also do not want to isolate people with mental disorders as "others" especially if some have their symptoms under control. For the latter it would seem not only unconstitutional but also a violation against HIPAA and gun shops refuse to sell guns to those with a psychiatric diagnosis.

I think a lot of it has to do with the culture and social stigmas revolving around mental illness. People who think they might have a problem may not want to seek out help due to such stigmas. They might also feel that they won't really get much help.

I was thinking about this several years ago after the shooting of Gabrielle Giffords. The shooter, Loughner, had made some half-hearted attempts to seek help beforehand, but he was apparently brushed aside or not taken very seriously. Interestingly enough, after the shooting and he was in Federal custody in Missouri, they had experts and top-level professionals flying in from all over the country to evaluate him and set up a treatment plan by which he was eventually considered sane enough to stand trial (at which he plead guilty).

The point is, they don't really do anything meaningful to help someone until they've already gone over the edge. Everyone else is either warehoused or put at the back of the line and told to wait. A lot of people just plain don't care, at least not until a bunch of people get shot.

As to your question about whether mentally ill people should be able to buy guns, I would think they would have the same Constitutional rights anyone else has - unless they are legally deemed incompetent and unable to manage their own affairs. Besides, a lot of people who could be mentally ill may go undiagnosed - or may not have ever sought help at all, so it wouldn't necessarily stop anything.

 

[sun rise]

Or, we just make California "gun-free" and all the bleeding heart liberals can live there. They'll be surprised when the gun-free doesn't do anything for the murder count or anything else.

Except that history proves it does.

 

[sun rise]

I call B.S, understanding that it is in the best interest of society overall gangs will:
-Turn in all illegal weapons
-Stop selling drugs
- Demand that port authorities check every single shipping container and will refuse any shipments of drugs and or weapons/parts.

It's a fantasy world filled with funny little frogs with magical little hats held together with cotton candy and fairy string- I will leave now, I'm not being helpful.

We better legalize murder because we can't stop all murder.

 

[sun rise]

Looking at the OP, my model is the laws about epilepsy and driving. Epilepsy and driving - Wikipedia - conditions which are controlled by medication or abate with other treatment would have special restrictions on firearms removed after a suitable waiting period.

To forestall a typical extremist objection, this is not perfect as no law is perfect and every law is violated. But it's a decent standard which would come with suitable penalties for criminals that violate such laws.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I call B.S, understanding that it is in the best interest of society overall gangs will:
-Turn in all illegal weapons
-Stop selling drugs
- Demand that port authorities check every single shipping container and will refuse any shipments of drugs and or weapons/parts.

It's a fantasy world filled with funny little frogs with magical little hats held together with cotton candy and fairy string- I will leave now, I'm not being helpful.

This has to be the most ignorant attempt at logic as of yet......In this case I have a trauma doctor that hates gun shot wounds that would love to talk to you

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I think a lot of it has to do with the culture and social stigmas revolving around mental illness. People who think they might have a problem may not want to seek out help due to such stigmas. They might also feel that they won't really get much help.

I was thinking about this several years ago after the shooting of Gabrielle Giffords. The shooter, Loughner, had made some half-hearted attempts to seek help beforehand, but he was apparently brushed aside or not taken very seriously. Interestingly enough, after the shooting and he was in Federal custody in Missouri, they had experts and top-level professionals flying in from all over the country to evaluate him and set up a treatment plan by which he was eventually considered sane enough to stand trial (at which he plead guilty).

The point is, they don't really do anything meaningful to help someone until they've already gone over the edge. Everyone else is either warehoused or put at the back of the line and told to wait. A lot of people just plain don't care, at least not until a bunch of people get shot.

As to your question about whether mentally ill people should be able to buy guns, I would think they would have the same Constitutional rights anyone else has - unless they are legally deemed incompetent and unable to manage their own affairs. Besides, a lot of people who could be mentally ill may go undiagnosed - or may not have ever sought help at all, so it wouldn't necessarily stop anything.

Much like my current job our society changes feelings about a thing when tragedy happens, until then there is no proactive behavior on our part. I guess that is how things change.

 

[Stanyon]

This has to be the most ignorant attempt at logic as of yet......In this case I have a trauma doctor that hates gun shot wounds that would love to talk to you

Are you trying to get me to believe that criminals will just keep breaking the law and will still get illegal weapons- are you insane?

We better legalize murder because we can't stop all murder.

We better make everything illegal because you can commit murder with just about anything

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I have the solution. We amend the second amendment.

Yes, an amendment to keep mentally ill people from getting a gun without a note from their doctor.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Who thinks banning guns (in the limited places that has happened) removes gun violence?

Increased gun control in Australia has removed all mass shootings, though.
0 since they were introduced.

The Australian gun control laws went into effect after the Port Arthur massacre in 1996. In the 20 since then there have 13 mass murders. The twenty years previous...14.

A most effective reversal.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Increased gun control in Australia has removed all mass shootings, though.
0 since they were introduced.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The Hunt Family murders. 5 dead by gunshot.

Monash University shooting. 2 dead, 5 injured.

 

[suncowiam]

Jesus another Trump related commented...Unless you live here especially in SoCal this opinion is really moot.

I have no idea why you felt that was Trump related.

I don't live in SoCal. I live in NoCal.

 

[suncowiam]

California could build a wall and make the rest of the U.S. Pay for it!

No, that type of economics doesn't work.

 

[suncowiam]

Yes, an amendment to keep mentally ill people from getting a gun without a note from their doctor.

Wow, either you read minds really well, or the answer was that easy?

Wow!

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Or, we just make California "gun-free" and all the bleeding heart liberals can live there. They'll be surprised when the gun-free doesn't do anything for the murder count or anything else.

Why wouldn't it? It works everywhere else with reasonable gun control

 

[suncowiam]

Medical opinions on what in particular?

On the subject you mentioned... Being mentally ill.

Why not have the APA (American Psychological Association) or the APA (American Psychiatric Association) consider a process on how to screen people for being mentally fit to own a guns. If I'm missing some other prominent mental health group, then include them too. Have them guide law enforcement with statistics and data to best build a plan.