Default position

[Audie]

No.

Really.
So if not from " god " where does such "info" come from?

You speak of what "God" does
as facts.
Why do you do that?

 

[Trailblazer]

Really.
So if not from " god " where does such "info" come from?

I 'believe' it comes from God.
I said no, it is not proof of God, since nobody can prove it came 'from God.'

You speak of what "God" does
as facts.
Why do you do that?

It might sound like that because I have a firm belief, but what God does is not factual since facts can be proven, and nothing God does can be proven.

Fact: something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information:
fact

Fact: a thing that is known or proved to be true.
what is a fact - Google Search

Fact or Opinion? - Tutor Hints
A fact is a statement that can be verified. It can be proven to be true or false through objective evidence.
An opinion is a statement that expresses a feeling, an attitude, a value judgment, or a belief.
It is a statement that is neither true nor false. Or it may feel true for some, but false for others.

A FACT:
- can be proven true or false through objective evidence.
- relies on denotative language.
- frequently uses measurable or verifiable numbers, statistics, dates and measurements.

AN OPINION:
- cannot be presently verified.
- relies on connotative language.
- can mean different things to different people.
- uses value judgment words and comparisons such as “best,” “most,” etc.

https://www.palmbeachstate.edu/slc/Documents/fact or opinion hints.pdf

 

[Audie]

I 'believe' it comes from God.
I said no, it is not proof of God, since nobody can prove it came 'from God.'

It might sound like that because I have a firm belief, but what God does is not factual since facts can be proven, and nothing God does can be proven.

Fact: something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information:
fact

Fact: a thing that is known or proved to be true.
what is a fact - Google Search

Fact or Opinion? - Tutor Hints
A fact is a statement that can be verified. It can be proven to be true or false through objective evidence.
An opinion is a statement that expresses a feeling, an attitude, a value judgment, or a belief.
It is a statement that is neither true nor false. Or it may feel true for some, but false for others.

A FACT:
- can be proven true or false through objective evidence.
- relies on denotative language.
- frequently uses measurable or verifiable numbers, statistics, dates and measurements.

AN OPINION:
- cannot be presently verified.
- relies on connotative language.
- can mean different things to different people.
- uses value judgment words and comparisons such as “best,” “most,” etc.

https://www.palmbeachstate.edu/slc/Documents/fact or opinion hints.pdf

I dont know if its condescding or you
just like doing it but plz spare me the
English lessons.

If you know what facts are maybe stop
giving opinions as fact.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Information?
What information?

Trailblazer means the 'rants of people'. The daily rant, when they would start before sunrise and end it when the clock strikes 12 in the night.

Yes, Baha'u'llah knew things that were not facts at the time of revelation.

Like what? (invitation to start on prophecies)

 

[Aupmanyav]

No proof of God, no proof that someone was a messenger from God, no proof that what that person said was from any God.
The person would very well be a scammer, a Rasputin. And you rant day and night about that!
Do you think that all the forum members who do not accept your belief are fools? Or that your belief is foolishness?

 

[Trailblazer]

maybe stop giving opinions as fact

sorry you cannot tell the difference.

 

[Audie]

sorry you cannot tell the difference.

Put the fault on me. Kindergarten stuff.

Try stating opinion as fact in court or a thesis defense.

 

[Audie]

No proof of God, no proof that someone was a messenger from God, no proof that what that person said was from any God.
The person would very well be a scammer, a Rasputin. And you rant day and night about that!
Do you think that all the forum members who do not accept your belief are fools? Or that your belief is foolishness?

Of course he was a scammer.

 

[Kfox]

It seems to me that an atheist's default position is, in fact, atheism.

Absent of proof for a god, they don't believe in one.

I have no proof of god, but I think that is because I haven't diligently searched long enough yet. I am sort of young. For me, absent of proof, I believe in a higher power. It would have to be proven to me that God does not exist like the gaps in knowledge would have to be eradicated I think.

Perhaps, after some years of searching, I will become an athesist if I find no experiences which reinforce my faith.

Nobody has proof of God, that's why it's called "faith". Faith is believing without empirical evidence/proof. If you can continue to believe without proof, you can maintain your belief; if you cannot, you will probably become atheist.

 

[Audie]

Nobody has proof of God, that's why it's called "faith". Faith is believing without empirical evidence/proof. If you can continue to believe without proof, you can maintain your belief; if you cannot, you will probably become atheist.

I dont need proof the airplane won't crash.

Or that my food has not been poisoned.

Evidence for faith in any of the ten thousand gods and
demi gods demons sprites etc is another matter.

 

[Kfox]

I dont need proof the airplane won't crash.

Or that my food has not been poisoned.

Evidence for faith in any of the ten thousand gods and
demi gods demons sprites etc is another matter.

Good point! Proof is not always necessary for belief; sometimes just having a very good reason to believe will suffice.

 

[Audie]

Good point! Proof is not always necessary for belief; sometimes just having a very good reason to believe will suffice.

Surely no christian thinks there's good and
sufficent reason to have faith in zor the
volcano god.

 

[Trailblazer]

Try stating opinion as fact in court or a thesis defense.

I never stated my opinion as a fact so you are making a straw man.

 

[lukethethird]

I never stated my opinion as a fact so you are making a straw man.

View attachment 79228

It's your MO, you do it all the time. You speak from both sides of your mouth.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's your MO, you do it all the time. You speak from both sides of your mouth.

No, it is not my MO. I always say that what I believe is NOT a fact, since it can never be proven.

 

[lukethethird]

No, it is not my MO. I always say that what I believe is NOT a fact, since it can never be proven.

And then you turn around and say that messengers of god prove that there is a god as if it is a fact when it is nothing more than a circular belief of yours.

 

[Trailblazer]

And then you turn around and say that messengers of god prove that there is a god as if it is a fact when it is nothing more than a circular belief of yours.

That is a big fat straw man.
I only ever say that I believe Messengers of God are the evidence (not proof) that there is a God.
If it sounds like I think it is a fact, that is not my problem. I have stated over and over again that it is not a fact, since it can never be proven.

 

[lukethethird]

That is a big fat straw man.
I only ever say that I believe Messengers of God are the evidence (not proof) that there is a God.
If it sounds like I think it is a fact, that is not my problem. I have stated over and over again that it is not a fact, since it can never be proven.

Evidence is the proof, you are talking from both sides of your mouth.

 

[Trailblazer]

Evidence is the proof, you are talking from both sides of your mouth.

Evidence is not the same as proof. Only verifiable evidence is proof, and there is no verifiable evidence of God.
I have probably said that dozens of times and posted the definitions of evidence and proof. Here it is again:

There is nothing wrong with wanting proof to base your beliefs on, just don't ever expect to get proof that God exists, or proof that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God, since these can never be proven as facts. All we have is the evidence that indicates to 'some of us' that this was the case and causes 'some of us to' believe, but evidence is not the same as proof.

Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid: https://www.google.com/search

Evidence is anything that you see, experience, read, or are told that causes you to believe that something is true or has really happened.
Objective evidence definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

Proof: evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement: https://www.google.com/search

There are many kinds of evidence, and not all evidence is verifiable. Verifiable evidence is proof because it establishes something as a fact.

Fact: something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information:
fact

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

No, it is not my MO. I always say that what I believe is NOT a fact, since it can never be proven.

As a former evangelical Christian, I don't believe that there is any kind of sufficient evidence for the existence of God or any other deity, for that matter. I don't entirely believe in the existence of gods because I haven't seen any evidence that fully convinces me of their existence. And while I practice Wicca, I'm willing to acknowledge that I lack sufficient empirical evidence or alleged evidence that any deities exist. However, I choose to believe in the prospect of supernatural deities while recognizing that I can't prove or disprove their existence. I've always been drawn to spirituality and am fascinated by beliefs in the supernatural, but I'm not willing to state that I'm completely confident, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the God of the Bible or any other deities actually exist. I'm not all-knowing and all-powerful, and I can't be in all places at once or explore all of space and time. So, as far as I'm concerned, I can't honestly determine whether there is only one God, if there are other deities, or if there aren't any deities at all. Therefore, I'm an agnostic, not an atheist.

Evidence is not the same as proof. Only verifiable evidence is proof, and there is no verifiable evidence of God.
I have probably said that dozens of times and posted the definitions of evidence and proof. Here it is again:

There is nothing wrong with wanting proof to base your beliefs on, just don't ever expect to get proof that God exists, or proof that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God, since these can never be proven as facts. All we have is the evidence that indicates to 'some of us' that this was the case and causes 'some of us to' believe, but evidence is not the same as proof.

Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid: https://www.google.com/search

Evidence is anything that you see, experience, read, or are told that causes you to believe that something is true or has really happened.
Objective evidence definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

Proof: evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement: https://www.google.com/search

There are many kinds of evidence, and not all evidence is verifiable. Verifiable evidence is proof because it establishes something as a fact.

Fact: something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information:
fact

Informative.