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Defining Atheism

ButTheCatCameBack

Active Member
Of course. People should not confuse the separate ideas of the definition of atheism and the complexity of the philosophical position itself. It doesn't help that some people, usually to slur atheists(and to a lesser extent agnostics), conflate the two for the purpose.
 
I take it atheism is just a spectrum of people who are skeptics?

Atheism is atheism. You are either "Weak" or "Strong". Weak Atheism is what the original post stated while allowing for the possibility of the supernatural being there, it still operates as though it isn't. Strong Atheism simply forgoes that possibility. Agnosticism is the statement that it is impossible for you to know. Varieties of agnostics can lean towards a theistic agnostic or atheistic agnostic but the core remains. That is all they are. They have nothing to do with any other philosophical conundrum, political ideology, or ideas.
 

MissAlice

Well-Known Member
Of course. People should not confuse the separate ideas of the definition of atheism and the complexity of the philosophical position itself. It doesn't help that some people, usually to slur atheists(and to a lesser extent agnostics), conflate the two for the purpose.

Sorry I wasn't trying to slur the definition. What I meant was there what people who confuse atheism with people who are out to condemn religion. I'm not very great at explaining myself well on this forum but I've been accused of this and I've known some people who hold a strong view against those with a set of personal "spiritual" and dogmatic beliefs.
 

ButTheCatCameBack

Active Member
Sorry I wasn't trying to slur the definition. What I meant was there what people who confuse atheism with people who are out to condemn religion. I'm not very great at explaining myself well on this forum but I've been accused of this and I've known some people who hold a strong view against those with a set of personal "spiritual" and dogmatic beliefs.

No need to apologize. I didn't think you were. I was just posting a thought I had on the title of the thread.
 

MissAlice

Well-Known Member
Atheism is atheism. You are either "Weak" or "Strong". Weak Atheism is what the original post stated while allowing for the possibility of the supernatural being there, it still operates as though it isn't. Strong Atheism simply forgoes that possibility. Agnosticism is the statement that it is impossible for you to know. Varieties of agnostics can lean towards a theistic agnostic or atheistic agnostic but the core remains. That is all they are. They have nothing to do with any other philosophical conundrum, political ideology, or ideas.

Thank you.

I really don't think labels alone can easily define a person's set of beliefs and even disbeliefs personally. I've had people attack and assume me for using the label atheist.
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
Of course. People should not confuse the separate ideas of the definition of atheism and the complexity of the philosophical position itself. It doesn't help that some people, usually to slur atheists(and to a lesser extent agnostics), conflate the two for the purpose.
Really? Could you elaborate?
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
It is a calculator. It does not think. It is no more an atheist than it is a theist. I am not quite sure what you were intending by the question.
According to our defintion it is an atheist.

My problem is that such a definition may (or may not) be a useful starting point, but is not a useful description. Any "atheism" that is not the calculated rejection or doubt of certain god concepts presented to the thinker based on available evidence doesn't seem to be worth speaking of. Yet, this is hammered out fairly often.

We shouldn't be compiling dictionaries, we should be building and consiling knowledge.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
the potential for having religion resinate with our reasoning is located in the left hemisphere of our brain... the amygdala

"It seems the right amygdala is more responsive to existing environmental threats, and the left amygdala to verbal fear conditioning and anticipated threats."

Conservative Left Brain, Liberal Right Brain

so really, it's all in the mind :rolleyes:
 

St Giordano Bruno

Well-Known Member
Atheism: The lack of belief in a higher power or deity

OK, Mickiel? 301? Archer? Is this simple enough for you? No, it is nothing to do with evolution. No, it is nothing to do with hating religion. No, it is nothing to do with making Man a God, or a 'great Nothing', or any other example of the random and utterly unfounded crap that you assert atheism is.

One more time in a bigger font:

Atheism: The lack of belief in a higher power or deity

Hopefully that clears it up for you.

I can understand it means a lack in belief in a higher deity, but a lack in belief in a higher power is a bit of a grey area, because a higher need not necessarily be a conscious entity. It could mean nuclear power, thermonuclear power such as what powers our sun and the stars and I sure they could generate power much higher than anything I could muster.
 

filthy tugboat

Active Member
I've personally found the most universally acceptable definition of atheism is: without theism - one who does not identify themselves as a theist.
 

Slorri

Member
Atheism: The lack of belief in a higher power or deity

Atheism: The lack of belief in a higher power or deity
Hopefully that clears it up for you.

Would you say that electronic calculators are atheists?

According to our defintion it is an atheist.

My problem is that such a definition may (or may not) be a useful starting point, but is not a useful description. Any "atheism" that is not the calculated rejection or doubt of certain god concepts presented to the thinker based on available evidence doesn't seem to be worth speaking of. Yet, this is hammered out fairly often.

We shouldn't be compiling dictionaries, we should be building and consiling knowledge.

I agree with you, this is a good question.
By asking this we see that the original statement is not true. Electronic calculators most likely lack the belief in a higher power or deity, but still they can't be considered to be atheists.

Atheism is not the lack of belief, but instead it is the belief in a higher power or deity and then the rejection of that very same belief one oneself has.
 

lunakilo

Well-Known Member
I agree with you, this is a good question.
By asking this we see that the original statement is not true. Electronic calculators most likely lack the belief in a higher power or deity, but still they can't be considered to be atheists.
I find it rather funny that people keep debating this.
Why is it so important to keep going over that there is no clear definition of athism that everybody can agree on?

What does it matter if you have a definition that allows electronic calculators to be classified as athists? I would not feel different about my electronic calculator if it turned out to be an atheist ;)
It is clear to me that the definition only makes sense if we are talking about a being that has the ability to believe something.

Atheism is not the lack of belief, but instead it is the belief in a higher power or deity and then the rejection of that very same belief one oneself has.
:areyoucra
So you claim for me to be an atheist I must first believe in the existence of a deity?!

That makes no sense to me what so ever.

What would you the call a person who lacks belief in deities?
What would you call a person who believes there are no deities?
 
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Slorri

Member
...
:areyoucra
So you claim for me to be an atheist I must first believe in the existence of a deity?!

That makes no sense to me what so ever.

What would you the call a person who lacks belief in deities?
What would you call a person who believes there are no deities?


In order for you to be able to say that you don't believe in something you must first have an idea of what that something is. That idea is your belief.

A religious person might talk about his belief to the atheist, but the atheist can not receive the belief from the religious person, he only hear the talk, and then creates his own belief in his mind. If he don't like what he believe then he will reject it, hence he can call himself an atheist.

There is no need to call a person who lacks belief in deities anything. Compare it to a person who don't keep ducks in his yard, there is no need for a special term for those.

I would call a person who believes there are no deities an atheist. (An anti-theist.)
 

FlyingTeaPot

Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
People often confuse atheism as a claim in itself. However, atheism is a response to a positive claim. Person A claims: There is a god. Person B says: I don't believe you. Show me some evidence for it.

I think that is the simplest explanation for atheism that I can come up with. Person B in this case would be an atheist.
 

Slorri

Member
People often confuse atheism as a claim in itself. However, atheism is a response to a positive claim. Person A claims: There is a god. Person B says: I don't believe you. Show me some evidence for it.

I think that is the simplest explanation for atheism that I can come up with. Person B in this case would be an atheist.

Yes, person B could be labelled an atheist; But there is no difference in significance between a positive and a negative claim, they are both claims based on the individual person's beliefs.

By the sentence "Show me some evidence for it" we see that person B has a fairly good idea of what he like the evidence to prove. It's all about proof for the persons own belief. This belief is likely to change over time. If a similar claim comes from a quantum-physicist the atheist might be more prone to take it under consideration, perhaps. Unless the atheist is also a sceptic; Then he will constantly ask for proof and constantly reject any proof handed to him.

This is the beauty of beliefs, it is your own very subjective thing.
 

FlyingTeaPot

Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
Yes, person B could be labelled an atheist; But there is no difference in significance between a positive and a negative claim, they are both claims based on the individual person's beliefs.

I didn't say atheism was a claim, be it positive or negative. What I said was that it was a response to a claim.
By the sentence "Show me some evidence for it" we see that person B has a fairly good idea of what he like the evidence to prove. It's all about proof for the persons own belief. This belief is likely to change over time. If a similar claim comes from a quantum-physicist the atheist might be more prone to take it under consideration, perhaps. Unless the atheist is also a sceptic; Then he will constantly ask for proof and constantly reject any proof handed to him.

This is the beauty of beliefs, it is your own very subjective thing.

No. We have a well defined meaning of what evidence means. Any evidence must be testable and repeatable, which is the common standard we use in science.

If a claim comes from a quantum physicist, I would still ask for proof. Notice that the person making the claim does not matter. What matters is the claim itself.

If the theist was content with stating that "I believe god exists", my response would be "Okay", since that is his/her belief, and beliefs should not be held to any standard of proof.

However, if the theist makes a positive claim, i.e, "God exists". I would say "I do not believe you unless you prove your claim."
I fail to see why this fairly common response gets so much heat when applied to the subject of a deity.

Notice that atheism is a response to a claim, not a belief.

People can believe all sorts of things, and they should not be held accountable for their private beliefs.
 
I define atheism as a religion/belief system.

Belief in no God/gods/whatever else, is still a belief. There's some that are like "I refuse to accept that atheism is a religion" well it kinda still is.
 

lunakilo

Well-Known Member
I define atheism as a religion/belief system.

Belief in no God/gods/whatever else, is still a belief. There's some that are like "I refuse to accept that atheism is a religion" well it kinda still is.
I also believe Australia exists. Does that make it a religion?
If so what is it called?
 

McBell

Unbound
I define atheism as a religion/belief system.

Belief in no God/gods/whatever else, is still a belief. There's some that are like "I refuse to accept that atheism is a religion" well it kinda still is.
Yeah, in the exact same way as not collecting stamps is a hobby...
 
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