Definition of...

[Segev Moran]

Faith: Trust in a belief.

I Hear a lot of people say that they "Know" because they have Faith...
While you suggest that Faith is believing what you believe is true?
I think a belief and trust are more or less have the same meaning...
So it will be like saying I know that what I think i Know is true...?


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[Skwim]

I Hear a lot of people say that they "Know" because they have Faith...​

I've heard the same and chalk it up to needful hubris. Talk is cheap, including psychological reinforcing reassurances.

While you suggest that Faith is believing what you believe is true?

No! I said that faith is TRUST in a belief.

I think a belief and trust are more or less have the same meaning...
So it will be like saying I know that what I think i Know is true...?

And I see a very clear difference. I can believe a myriad of things, without putting any trust in them. I can believe (as opposed to know) that my local theater will open at 7:00 pm tomorrow night, but having no concern that it does or does not, I have no reason to trust that it will. Trust implies a reliance, for whatever reason. I believe that the car approaching the intersection up ahead will stop at the stop sign, but not caring whether it does or not I have no reason to trust that it does; ergo: no faith that it will. However, when I get to that intersection and stop, and see another car coming towards its stop sign to my left, I do more than just believe it will stop and give me my due right of way, I proceed through the intersection with the faith that it will not T-bone me. I put trust in my belief.

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[Segev Moran]

And I see a very clear difference. I can believe a myriad of things, without putting any trust in them. I can believe (as opposed to know) that my local theater will open at 7:00 pm tomorrow night, but having no concern that it does or does not, I have no reason to trust that it will. Trust implies a reliance, for whatever reason. I believe that the car approaching the intersection up ahead will stop at the stop sign, but not caring whether it does or not I have no reason to trust that it does;

ergo: no faith that it will. However, when I get to that intersection and stop, and see another car coming towards its stop sign to my left, I do more than just believe it will stop and give me my due right of way, I proceed through the intersection with the faith that it will not T-bone me. I put trust in my belief.

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Okay.. I understand what you meant by that...
But i think there is something missing here...
Faith, is only valid when you have no valid information about the situation yet you believe that what you think about the situation is true...
So let's take your example and play with it a bit...
So you see a racing car driving towards a crosswalk, and there is a little child standing there...
This time, There are no stop signs, No traffic lights, and there is no law that says the car driver must give the child the right to cross safely...
more than that, it seems that the driver is not really seeing the child...
now, If in this situation you'd say you have faith the driver will stop the car.. I can agree... because there is no other valid information that can suggest he will actually stop.
Will you trust your belief in that situation?
Or will you do whatever you can to make sure the driver stops the car on time (or that the child is far from harm)
If you have faith that the driver will stop, yet you'll do your best to make sure the driver indeed stops the car, there is no trust.

 

[Skwim]

Faith, is only valid when you have no valid information about the situation yet you believe that what you think about the situation is true...
So let's take your example and play with it a bit...
So you see a racing car driving towards a crosswalk, and there is a little child standing there...
This time, There are no stop signs, No traffic lights, and there is no law that says the car driver must give the child the right to cross safely...

But there is. By law vehicles must stop or at least yield to pedestrians crossing a road. See HERE

more than that, it seems that the driver is not really seeing the child...
now, If in this situation you'd say you have faith the driver will stop the car.. I can agree... because there is no other valid information that can suggest he will actually stop.
Will you trust your belief in that situation?
Or will you do whatever you can to make sure the driver stops the car on time (or that the child is far from harm)
If you have faith that the driver will stop, yet you'll do your best to make sure the driver indeed stops the car, there is no trust.

How can you have faith that the driver will stop if you don't trust that he will?

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[Milton Platt]

Hi All,
I Would love to hear your definition of the following:
I Would give my shot definition (An Atheist POV) and would love hearing yours

Hope

To have a positive thinking towards something even if the chance of it fulfilling is small

Faith

Believe something is true although all evidence and reason suggest otherwise. As far as I see it, Faith is a term that is redundant.

Wish

To want something to be true (Even if currently you don't have a practical way of getting it)

Sin

N/A, Can't really define it as i think this is a religious term

Holy

See "Sin"

Salvation

To be saved from a situation that seems unlikely to survive

Soul

The things we yet understand about how our body works

Spirit

See "Soul"


Thanks all

I'll probably debate you about your definition, so apologies in advance

Agree in general, but usually equate faith in the religious sense of the word with gullability. By that I mean believing in something without sufficient evidence to support the belief.

 

[Segev Moran]

But there is. By law vehicles must stop or at least yield to pedestrians crossing a road. See HERE

And these are laws that were learned not because of religion.. rather because of millions of accidents around the globe upon which we slowly learned how to avoid them...
It wasn't religion that made those laws.. rather people who've learned the subject and the statistics and variant factors that might cause an accident... (and still learning to this day)...that figured out what needs to be done...
God didn't give us those laws... we did...

How can you have faith that the driver will stop if you don't trust that he will?
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And that's exactly my point...how can you trust something you don't really know?
I Consider knowing as something i can validate... something i can understand with my natural senses...If i don't really know, I can assume based on what i do know as to what is more likely true...

 

[Skwim]

And these are laws that were learned not because of religion.. rather because of millions of accidents around the globe upon which we slowly learned how to avoid them...
It wasn't religion that made those laws.. rather people who've learned the subject and the statistics and variant factors that might cause an accident... (and still learning to this day)...that figured out what needs to be done...
God didn't give us those laws... we did...

So What?

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[Segev Moran]

So What?

So you trust that the person in the car will obey the Laws human set... and not a Law that a God did

 

[Aštra’el]

Hi All,
I Would love to hear your definition of the following:

Hope

Optimism in the face of unfavorable odds;

To desire and expect something specific to happen

Faith

Unwavering trust in the ability of something or someone

Wish

A powerful desire (about a specific unlikely event) that yearns to be fulfilled

Will

A powerful desire to make something specific happen;

The mind's power of choosing one's actions

Sin

Transgression against God(s), as perceived through the spiritual-religious system of an individual or a group

Holy

A highly revered status experienced by a particular person, place or thing when it is recognized to be of profound spiritual-religious significance to an individual or a group

Deliverance

The act or journey of being saved from a highly undesired experience

Salvation

The cause or outcome of one's deliverance

Soul

A collection of thoughts and memories that (combined with genetics) shapes the personality and behavior of a particular creature

Spirit

Life force

 

[Skwim]

So What?

So you trust that the person in the car will obey the Laws human set... and not a Law that a God did

Your point being . . . . . . . .? (I fail to see the relevance.)



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[Segev Moran]

Your point being . . . . . . . .? (I fail to see the relevance.)



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The point is that human invented laws.. not God...
Humans interpret stories to lesson that seems the most beneficial to humans.

The story about Red riding Hood.. is a very violent story.. It is far from being a story fit for children.. yet we present it as a story with great lesson...

Why is that? Does this make Red Riding Hood a holy book?

All laws that we ever followed.. are laws created by humans..
I know it is hard to admit.. but ask yourself, if it wasn't illegal to steal.. how many people do you think will not steal? much less then we hope...

If it wasn't illegal to murder someone, how many people would kill without remorse? again, unfortunately.. much more than we would like to admit..

as Humans learn more and more and become more educated and knowledgeable, we come to understand what it is that is needed to survive as a specie..